Games

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Out of what? Like 5 extraction shooters? I don't get the popularity, it's pretty damn bland and shoves MTX in your face like crazy, but I have been pretty out of touch with the mainstream market for a while now.
What MTX are you talking about?
What extraction shooter doesn't have MTX? This one? Other than Tarkov (which does) AR is the only one I've seen that isnt F2P.
Zero Sievert doesn’t have any, but it’s a single player experience. Still a great game IMHO.
Helldivers 2.
HD2 is not an extraction shooter.
It does have MTX in the form of SUPER CREDITS and the stuff you can only buy with SC... You just can also earn SC for free if you grind hard enough.
ARC has the exact same system by the way. It's the battle pass thing where you choose the things you want each tier, and that includes the credits (Raider Tokens I think is what they're called here). You can also buy them. They're used to unlock other battle passes (no others available at the moment besides the one free one) and also cosmetics.
I don't think I would call HD2 an extraction shooter. I mean sure, you shoot things and try to extract, but for the same reason HD2 isn't a RPG just because you can roleplay or an RTS just because you need to make strategic decisions in real time, there's a lot more to these genres that HD2 doesn't include. Hell, technically you don't even need to extract, as the only thing successfully extracting gives you is any samples you find... completing the mission counts as a win regardless.
Skins and such that cost as much as the game itself. The industry has gone crazy and consumers keep sucking it up.
"Shoves MTX in your face like crazy" = skins in a STORE tab?
Yeah, don't think I will continue the conversation.
One look at the menus says otherwise, but I'd rather not continue the conversation anyway.
We are certainly not playing the same game, then. All good.
Edit: so, finally back home and started the game. Main screen, after game loads has 0 references to MTX. Zero. Only and only when you go to STORE tab do you get to see anything. Or if you click on RAIDER TOKENS section in the top right. Nothing else, anywhere.
So while I love shitting on game devs, I prefer to do it for a good reason, and not based on lies. You might not like the prices and that's perfectly ok, noone likes them.
But that does not equal "shoving MTX in your face".
You know what's cool? Skins don't impact gameplay at all! You don't actually have to buy them!
Things being cosmetic does not justify the outlandish price. 20€ for a skin, emote and some trinkets is a stupid price.
(They forgot we used to change what our character looks like for free)
There are also free cosmetics that you can unlock through quests.
It's so ingrained it's actually crazy. All cosmetics should be free.
Some of us actually understand that the quality of assets has significantly risen since the 00s and it takes artists significantly more time and effort to make high quality cosmetics. We're talking about going from assets taking days to assets taking weeks. Is the cost of the game supposed to eat all that extra development time? Are artists supposed to work for free? The realistic alternative to paid cosmetics is no extra cosmetics because quality cosmetic items are too expensive to make for free. Is that what you want?
You're free to be the old man yelling at the cloud but at least acknowledge that that is what you are.
No need to start throwing insults. It takes away from your argument. If you want to pay for cosmetics, sure go for it, but that's how we got in this mess.
Artists get paid either way, they are not paid on commission of skin sales. Any extra profit goes to the executives anyway, not to the artists. So that entire point is null.
Games existed before with no paid cosmetics, they would exist again without them. This used to be the free-to-play model, but now they realise they can charge you for the game and then again and again for skins. These types of games are designed to extract as much money from you as possible, that's their entire purpose. They are not giving you extra skins to be nice and then paying the artists more from it. A skin is made one time and sold a potentially infinite amount of times for ridiculous prices.
As I said:
Why would you ever want to advocate for a worse experience? It blows my mind, but that's the situation we got ourselves into.
Pretty ironic considering you're implying people who think it's okay to pay for cosmetics are crazy.
Like I said before, the realistic alternative to paid cosmetics is no extra cosmetics. Artists get paid anyway but if their work is freely given away how does it justify them working on it? And if you strip away the capitalist BS it becomes even more apparent that the artists making the assets deserve to be compensated for their labor.
A game is also made once and sold infinite amount of times. Why aren't you complaining about having to pay for games?
I'm not, which is why I'm advocating for cosmetic items to be reasonably priced. You're advocating for a worse experience where cosmetic items get made with minimal effort (if they even get made at all) because the labor is not going to pay off.
I said the situation is crazy, not a specific person. I dont blame any individual, the strategies used over the years by these companies to sell skins and make consumers complacent are all very manipulative and effective. The people designing the systems and the ones doing the marketing have done a very, very good job.
You seem stuck on artists all being freelance, getting paid on some sort of commission. They are almost always salaried employees like anyone else at the development company.
Weird analogy, paying for a game, something usually worked on for years, is a lot different than paying for a cosmetic change to something. It's like going to the movies and paying the price of the ticket again to sit in a green chair instead of a red one and being told that's completely normal and something you should do.
I agree, if skins were sold for $0.50, $1.00, max $5, then I would have less issue with them. I'd still have issue with the predatory practices used to sell them though. Some people are more susceptible to this than others, so I would rather it didnt exist at all.
You buy a game once, have all the content and are not pressured again to spend anything, that's the ideal scenario, why would I compromise on that?
Games should be a sustainable art form, not gross corporate projects to extract as much money as possible from consumers.
Maybe you should've been clearer on what you meant considering your passive aggressive tone towards the consumer like "consumers keep sucking it up" (I don't think this one need explaining) or calling them complacent (indirectly criticizing people for being too passive or indifferent) or saying we forgot cosmetics used to be free (implies we used to know better and now don't).
First of all, whether they're freelance or not shouldn't matter to you considering you're claiming they shouldn't get paid either. And secondly I don't think you understand how companies operate. People at companies work to generate revenue. Free cosmetics do not generate revenue and if they're packaged with the game their contribution to the pricing is marginal thus the labor cost of making these assets would be disproportionate to their value and they don't get made. The artists will get paid by they won't be working of cosmetics. For artists to work on cosmetics there needs to be an incentive to work on them.
Is it? Last time I checked money goes off my account and I get something that costs no extra for the company (outside of making the thing).
Or are you drawing the difference at the amount of time it takes to make something? So a game made within a month should be free? A cosmetic that for some reasons took years to make should be paid? Or is it a matter of respect? That you respect game devs and their labor but you don't respect artists and their labor?
As for your cinema analogy, some cinemas have higher quality chairs in the same theater and as a matter of fact, you do pay extra for them.
Are we starting to move the goal post here? Cosmetics costing less shouldn't matter to you at all because your issue is that you have pay ANY amount for them.
Which is a completely different issue. I also have issues with predatory practices but the existence of predatory practices doesn't mean cosmetics should be free.
And if the game releases a DLC with new content are you not pressured to buy the DLC? Are you going to argue that DLC should also be free or are you going to draw another arbitrary line in the sand stating that game devs deserve the money but artists don't?
And how exactly is something sustainable when you give it away for free?
I'll just say it because you want me to.
You are very confused. My point is very simple and understandable, yet you will purposefully misinterpret everything I say, just to fit your agenda for the sake of argument.
I already said, if you want to buy skins, go for it. It's your money. You dont need to get so defensive over that. It's okay.
Because you are so hellbent on going in circles as an argument strategy, I wont discuss further. Good luck out there.
Your point is very simple and understandable, but that doesn't make it right. If your point was right it should be able to withstand the criticism I'm giving it, but it can't. That's why you think I'm confused and misinterpreting what you're saying, because you don't like me poking holes in your misguided belief.
Exactly! A good example of consumer complacency!
I'll agree with the other comment; ARC does not shove then in your face. The only time you see that stuff can be purchased is when you go to the customization menu. That's it. You also get some of the premium currency for free.
I'm pretty confident theyll handle it well because in The Finals I've been playing for about ~2 years and have purchased most of the battle passes and some outfit stuff, all with putting no money into the game. This is a $40 game. I suspect it will be handled well.
You can purchase extra stuff, but you can't say it's shoved in your face. It definitely is not. It's just a way to get extra money from whales. I think it's probably not smart for a game to ship without some MTX at this point. You can make the game cheaper for most people by having the whales fund it. It's practical.
It's bland? You can not like it if you want. That's fine (if you've played it). Don't make shit up though. In the realm of modern shooters, it definitely isn't bland. It's pretty unique. It's got a style you don't see anywhere else (though still based in realism), and the gameplay isn't like many other games.
The enemies in particular are incredible though. That's where it stands out. They're actually physically based, and if you shoot out a leg or motor then they adjust to compensate. They used some machine learning to have them run in simulations where they learned how to move with different pieces missing. It's really special how they feel.
It's bland. That's my opinion. If you don't think so that's fine, but that is literally what an opinion is. The style is very similar to their old Frostbite games. You can see the EA Star Wars Battlefront in it.
The drones just being physics based isnt all that impressive that it makes the game for me, it's not exactly revolutionary, similar things have existed before anyway. The gameplay is like you see in a lot of other games, that's why I think it's bland. It's your run-of-the-mill 3rd person shooter, with some basic extraction shooter elements added.
If you enjoy it, fantastic go have fun, doesn't mean I have to like it and you don't have to defend the game or your position at all.
Every game is bland. Nothing is ever wholey unique. It takes elements from other things.
Whats the last "non-bland" game you've played?
I'm sorry you feel that way.
This might have been a bad time for you to ask, because I just finished Outer Wilds.
I was largely being sarcastic. Yeah, Outer Wilds might be the only game that pretty much does it's own thing I've played in many years.
I've been playing The Finals a lot for quite a while now. I would say it's incredibly innovative and unique. However, it's still a first person shooter based on capturing an objective point. At its core, it's derivative. The way everything fits together is unlike anything else though. Just listing features that are shared by other games does not mean it isn't doing something different.
So basically you have not tried it but complain about things you expect because…? Are you an EA or IGN employee or something?
I tried it. It's pretty bland, I already said that. You are allowed to enjoy it, that was just my opinion. No need to get defensive.
Did you try it by buying it and then refunding? Or do you mean you played the server slam a few weeks ago?
The core gameplay loop hasn't changed between any of the "beta" tests and release.
So you played the technical test and not just the server slam?