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Docker or Proxmox? Something else entirely? (piefed.social)

submitted 3 weeks ago by JeanValjean@piefed.social to c/selfhosted@lemmy.world

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New server has been acquired. Debian 13 has been installed.

GS308EP switches have been acquired and installed.

Now, I'm working to migrate to the new machine. 3 1/2 years ago when I started futzing with Docker, I sorta followed guides and guessed, abused it trying to make it do things it wasn't designed for, and flipped switches I likely shouldn't have flipped, so the set up is more than a little shabby.

As a result, I'll likely end more redeploying than migrating the containers.

So rather than go forward with Docker blindly, I want to reassess whether I shouldn't look into Proxmox, LXC, or Podman instead of Docker, or maybe something else entirely?

Work is just about done dumping ESX for Nutanix, but both of those seem overkill for my needs.

Of course the forums for any of the solutions make their own out to be the best thing since sliced bread and the others useless, so I'm hoping to get a more nuanced answer here.

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[–] glizzyguzzler@piefed.blahaj.zone 21 points 3 weeks ago (7 children)

If you’ve got Debian already installed, I cannot resist advocating for Incus (stable branch from Zabbly repo with web ui https://blog.simos.info/how-to-install-and-setup-the-incus-web-ui/) in lieu of proxmox. Does the same thing but you don’t have to rip out the kernel Debian uses.

With Debian 13 you have access to podman quadlets, use that for any non-vm needs. The ease of docker compose files easily removes reason for programs in LXC containers, and podman removes reason for docker in an LXC. LXC is left only for programs that aren’t containerized. VMs for security DMZ. Podman for bulk of stuff you want.

Good luck!

[–] tofubl@discuss.tchncs.de 4 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago) (6 children)

I was in a similar spot not too long ago, setting up a firewall and general network box. I was going to go with Proxmox but a fellow Lemmy guy strongly advocated for Incus on top of vanilla Debian. I was intrigued and ended up going for it. Learned a lot about networking with systemd (bridging, IP assignment and so on) for things I could have gotten for free in Proxmox (literally a few clicks), and had to fight Incus to work with a FreeBSD VM for Opnsense, but I love the setup now. Pure debian with a few Incus VMs and Docker inside of those as needed. So clean!

[–] koala@programming.dev 6 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

Came in here to mention Incus if no one had.

I love it. I have three "home production" servers running Proxmox, but mostly because Proxmox is one of very few LTS/comercially-supported ways to run Linux in a supported way with root (and everything else on ZFS). And while its web UI is still a bit clunky in places, it comes in handy some times.

However, Incus automation is just... superior. incus launch --vm images:debian/13 foo, wait a few seconds then incus exec foo -- bash and I'm root on a console of a ready-to-go Debian VM. Without --vm, it's a lightweight LXC container. And Ansible supports running commands through incus exec, so you can provision stuff WITHOUT BOTHERING TO SET UP ANYTHING.

AND, it works remotely without fuss, so I can set up an Incus remote on a beefy server and spawn VMs nearly transparently. + incus file pull|push to transfer files.

I'm kinda pondering scripting removal of the Proxmox bits from a Proxmox install, so that I just keep their ZFS support and run Incus on top.

[–] Cyber@feddit.uk 1 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

Hmm, I setup a Proxmox machine a while back because, well, all the cool kids seemed to do it - and plenty of "support" on youtube

I found Incus and it just seemed better, but it was harder to find info on (back then) and seemed a little unready

Now, I regret not sticking with my gut instinct as I've got to basically rip out Proxmox to get Incus in, which means all my VMs are prisoners (and us: 1 VM is Home Assistant!)

So, do you know if it's possible to migrate my VMs across to Incus, or is it literally wipe drive, start again?

(Obviously the data in each VM can be backed up & restored into new VMs)

[–] koala@programming.dev 1 points 3 weeks ago

I haven't tested this, but I would expect there to be ways to do it, esp for VMs if they are not LXC containers.

(I try to automate provisioning as much as possible, so I don't do this kind of stuff often.)

The Incus forum is not huge, but it's friendly, and the authors are quite active.

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