this post was submitted on 10 Jun 2025
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98
German car industry calls for reversal of EU 2035 combustion engine ban (www.cleanenergywire.org)
submitted 5 days ago by schizoidman@lemm.ee to c/europe@feddit.org
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cross-posted from: https://lemm.ee/post/66415028

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[–] hessenjunge@discuss.tchncs.de 1 points 2 days ago (1 children)

German does not usually make a difference between city and town, but calls both of them Stadt. (...)

No, it's defined more clearly than in English, we're German after all. Also no definition places a Town (Kleinstadt) anywhere near 100k citizens.

If you want everybody to drive, then you end up with American style suburbs, which are imho horrible.

That is so out of touch with reality in Germany. Our streets are filled with way too many yet there no American style suburbanization happening. You brought up Darmstadt in your earlier reply - look up Loop5 and it's struggles. The city center is doing well and the mall is struggling. If your argument had any merit Germany would already be littered with malls and city centers would be dead.

Sorry but you have absolutely no idea on anything you brought up so far. I believe cities need less cars but no cars is not just a weird absolutism, it's absolute BS. Believe it or not, there are people with other life realities than yours.

[–] Melchior@feddit.org 0 points 2 days ago (1 children)

That is so out of touch with reality in Germany. Our streets are filled with way too many yet there no American style suburbanization happening. You brought up Darmstadt in your earlier reply - look up Loop5 and it’s struggles. The city center is doing well and the mall is struggling. If your argument had any merit Germany would already be littered with malls and city centers would be dead.

35% of trips in Darmstadt are done with a car, that means 65% are not. Parking is a horrible indicator for that. After all you do not park your tram on the street, after you used it on your way home or place your shoes on the street, after walking home.

Also Germany has a lot of suburbanization happening. It is not quite American style, but it is pretty easy to find parts of cities with nearly exlcusivly single family houses. The street layout is better, they do have some public transport and are denser, but they are nonetheless suburbs. For Darmstadt Wixhausen is a pretty good example of a suburb.

I believe cities need less cars but no cars is not just a weird absolutism, it’s absolute BS. Believe it or not, there are people with other life realities than yours.

That is why I used urban and not city. For Darmstadt for example I would go with Mitte and Bessungen being totally car free. Obviously the federal roads need to be rerouted.

[–] hessenjunge@discuss.tchncs.de 1 points 17 hours ago (1 children)

35% of trips in Darmstadt are done with a car, that means 65% are not. Parking is a horrible indicator for that. No, in the snippet you linked it says that in 2018 35% of trips within Darmstadt (length = 1-3km) were done by car. 3 km being walking distance for I think this is quite high. I'm sure however that the current number is lower. For some reason you assume that people living near center never leave it - your attempt at straw manning the Parking into this leads me to assume you're just being disingenuous (again).

Let's still run with it and look at the source of your outdated and ill-interpreted snippet. The current version is covering all cities and the result presentation differs a bit: Ergebnispräsentation SrV 2023. Download the PDF and look at the following slides. slides:

  • 12 - Modal Split (aufkommensbezogen) <- i.e. moste frequently used by type
  • 13 - Modal Split (verkehrsleistungsbezogen) <- i.e. length by type
  • 30 - Antriebsarten der Pkw nach Raumtyp
  • 31 - Comparison of charging options by area type
  • 36 - length of e|bike trips by area type

What you should see looking at these:

  • cars are used for only a third of trips / P
  • cars are used for 57,5% of total length travelled / P
    • this paired with TCO of a car vs. rental cost is one reason for the parking situation we can observe
  • bikes are used for a trip length up to 5km (avg)
  • EV usage, while growing, is not where it needs to be.
  • EV usage in big cities is lower than in small cities (re-read this thread to discover why that is)
  • urban regions have a higher usage and demand for public charging (this, with the point above should hopefully rase some questions )

.

Also Germany has a lot of suburbanization happening. It is not quite American style, but it is pretty easy to find parts of cities with nearly exlcusivly single family houses. The street layout is better, they do have some public transport and are denser, but they are nonetheless suburbs. For Darmstadt Wixhausen is a pretty good example of a suburb.

Honestly, this might be the dumbest thing I have read today. Yes, Wixhausen is one of the suburbs of Darmstadt. In fact most if not all cities on the planet have suburbs. No, they are not all the same and Wixhausen is nothing like US suburbs.

[–] Melchior@feddit.org 1 points 8 hours ago* (last edited 8 hours ago)

Looks at data once and then needs to you insults to try to win the argument....