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I don't get why people cling to X so desperately. You get no benefits and downsides on top. Wayland is becoming the default for all major and even some smaller DEs, so good luck avoiding all of them and backporting features so Wayland native apps don't break.
I'm not saying you shouldn't do stuff like this for fun. You can do anything for fun. I don't get why of all things you would do that for fun, but go ahead
Some people see no benefit in every compositor has to reimplement everything from scratch model Wayland does.
That's complete horseshit. There are lile 3 major implementations of Wayland and 2 exist because the other one wasn't ready at the time. There are other hobby implementations, but they all work together. Just like how different network stacks can all talk TCP to each other and be fine. Nobody calls TCP fragmented because there are different network stacks...
There are also smaller projects.
Also, the model of a protocol allows Wayland to be deployed on truly exotic operating systems. As long as the top level is compliant, shit just works.
but they all work together
Lol, no. Wlroots stuff doesn't work on Sway and vice versa, then there's a few extra limited-scope imlementations with the same problem and Weston is reference only.
And TCP doens't need to duplicate keyboard/mouse input and it builds on UDP to handle low-level stuff. SSH is a better example.
Lol, no. Wlroots stuff doesn’t work on Sway and vice versa, then there’s a few extra limited-scope imlementations with the same problem and Weston is reference only.
Sway is based on Wlroots. No way Wlroots stuff doesn't work on Sway.
Ah, yup, i mixed them up. Is it 3 years already?
My point is: as it is, wayland will turn out to have one implementation (because the whole bunch of tasks it handles is complex and there's no compositor-to-app compatibility) and everyone will require that. Or basically a X12.
Edit: nope, it was taskbars/docks that really didn't work on both. Do they now?
I think there will be more collaboration regarding protocols between Gnome, KDE and Sway, but one single implementation? Hardly.
are there not just 2 main libraries or so that all the compositions implement it via?
Give me a compositor with at least some of the capabilities of Awesome, AND the ability to apply custom shaders to windows like picom does, and some none alpha-quality VNC solutions, then I make seriously consider a permanent move.
So it's going to be X11 for at least 2-3 years to come for me. And this is based purely on practical and workflow reasoning. It's is also a logical, technical, and fully informed choice, unlike the entirety of your comment.
Cool but I really don't see why you wouldn't use Wayland
Someone's not happy with either Wayland or X11 being deprecated. I'm glad projects like this exist though.
Insecure by design ®️
After reading the linked page, it appears that at least some of the security issues are addressed:
Applications will be isolated from each other by default and can only interact with other applications either through a GUI prompt asking for permission, such as with screen recorders, where it will only be allowed to record the window specified or by explicitly giving the application permission before launched (such as a window manager or external compositor).
I'll probably continue to push forward with Wayland, but I suppose I'm pleased that someone is taking a crack at trying to improve X11. The author also mentions potentially using this as a lightweight and safe replacement for xwayland.
That's what X is known for right?
Is this the same guy who forked Xorg and immediately began pushing anti-woke messages?
Anyhow, why Zig? Surely they didn't rewrite the whole fucking X server in a different language?
I'm fairly certain dec05eba (from Phoenix) and metux (from X11Libre, the fork you're talking about) are different people: metux is still committing to X11Libre, both projects are hosted in different platforms (self-hosted vs. github), and their writing style is completely different.
dec05eba is a totally different person, it is the guy that makes gpu-screen-recorder which is amazing btw.
It is the person that made this PR that fixed a massive blunder by metux lol https://github.com/X11Libre/xserver/pull/56
Maybe they are not too dissimilar, based on this comment, but I'm not sure what their views really are, and the whole thread is a dumpster fire:
dec05eba on Jun 8
Looks like the anti DEI message in the README is working, it's filtering out the worst people
https://github.com/X11Libre/misc/issues/75#issuecomment-2984634335
*sigh* Thanks, I guess. The comment is short but completely unambiguous, even in context. I was hoping to be proven wrong, but they clearly belong to the same gang.
I just went down a 30min rabbit hole - mostly to figure out what really went down with Enrico Weigelt (metux). Chronologically, and extremely shortened:
We can easily imagine what other toxic stuff he spouted to make freedesktop go down hard on him, but in his mind it's all because "Big Tech" wants to kill X.org, and he is X.org's knight in shining armor.
His own spins on the narrative are sickening, petulant, and all-too-familiar. I refer you to the History.md of his fork. I found a couple of interviews, and he just repeats the same shit, down to the phrasing, notably: "The journalist who must not be named", vaguely hinting at even more conspiracy. I guess he means Liam Proven from The Register, who wrote at least 3 articles about him and his fork.
Here's an excerpt from some other article, which tries to praise the project while staying neutral, but really just spells out what is really going on here:
The README of Xlibre does not mince words. It claims that X.org has been infiltrated by "toxic elements" aligned with Big Tech. It accuses them of intentionally stalling X11 to eliminate it as competition to Wayland. And, most controversially, it declares that Xlibre is free of DEI—Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion—policies and the Codes of Conduct that have become standard in many modern open source projects.
That one line sent shockwaves.
Within 72 hours, Red Hat purged Weigelt from the X.org repositories. His GitLab account was banned. His merge requests were closed en masse. Canonical, Ubuntu’s parent company, went further, announcing they would remove X11 (edit: I guess this means Xlibre - if not, this is unrelated to Weigelt's tantrums) support entirely from future releases. What had begun as a technical fork became a cultural lightning rod.
Cultural my ass.
Thanks again; so far I had refused to get into this topic, now I know beyond any reasonable doubt that it's bullshit.
And BTW, I am using X.org (regular) myself. I never felt the need to switch, and I never felt the need to take part in all those Xorg/wayland discussions. But for completely unrelated, uncultural and unpolitical reasons I have recently considered switching to wayland myself.
They did, and don't call me Shirley.