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I think the main focus here should be the word "influencers".
One thing is for a relatively unknown person to speak about any kind of topic even if they know nothing about it.
But when someone with millions of followers spreads misinfo, that is dangerous as it can end up killing lots of people.
People with a certain amount of followers should be held accountable for what they say the same way that a newspaper should.
Yup, as someone who loosely follows streamer drama, this is kinda based.
sure, but that's not what this is doing. it doesn't say they'll be held accountable. it just places a high barrier to entry.
i understand the sentiment behind it, but I don't think this will be effective at curtailing disinformation. it would, however, be a very useful tool for controlling online speech. especially with a government that has so much control over its universities.
Yeah, I think if it's more about policing the misinformation influencers spread, then I can calm down a bit, although it still makes me nervous to think about the government picking and choosing what a person with a crowd can say.
For now, it's making sure influencers don't spread anti-vax bullshit, but what if tomorrow it's no talking about Palestine?
Even then, medical professionals themselves can fall to propaganda and spread lies, so we can't use a single person as an arbiter of truth.
If we held news accountable for misinformation then fox and all the other fascist networks wouldn’t even exist.
I don't see the problem with that.
There's a lot of nuance to be discussed and Republicans shouldn't be in the room at all when it is, but yeah this is objectively true. We used to have laws regulating the news for a reason.
I can see how this would play out in the states. First you make it so only degreed people can talk about certain things. Then you dismiss them as educated elite ivory tower academics. Because we live in a nation that scorns experience and expertise.
Someone asked for an example the other day of something that didn't believe was true and I listed seven. They dismissed me with "I didn't ask for an encyclopedia." It was the best way they could ignore that someone knew more than them and not have to actually process the information they explicitly asked for.
Sounds like they thought they could just argue on easy mode by putting the burden of proof on you. When you accommodated their request, that blew up their spot. Having no other recourse, they retreated to an insult since there was nothing else for them to do (but they were seething to get the last word, so you got that response).
Good on ya for making the fucker squirm.
I know that there is absolutely zero chance of educating some that doesn't want to learn. But I also know that online others are reading and those people are either looking for information they can use in future conversations or they don't have a vested interest in the conversation and can be reached even if they don't poke their heads up to be seen.
That's 100% the reason I'll bother with these idiots when i do. Sometimes it's also a chance for me to further prove out my logic and refine my arguments and understanding of the topic as well, so it can be a win-win-win in the best case scenario (troll proven wrong+me learning something new/refining my knowledge+bystanders learning why the troll is wrong)
Nah, if this happened in the US someone would just set up a diploma mill and rake in the money.
Turkey requires a college degree to become president. Then they started revoking the college degrees of the opposition candidates.
Pro gamer move.
This is quintessential “Modern CPP”
Take a real problem screwing up the western world bad (like influencer mis/disinformation), and smash it in a way only their massive state apparatus can…
Superficially.
It’s “proof” their party line works and, as always, a good way to control the populace, if abused. It’s probably effective, but not as effective as it appears on the surface.
I’m sympathetic here.
In past years I was a “free internet” libertarian leaning diehard, but something has to be done about algos boosting shameless outrage peddlers; it’s literally destroying the planet and our collective psyche, just for short term corporate benefit (Or corpo-state benefit in China's case, as its “Big Tech” is under the party's thumb). But China just took the problem and used it as an excuse for more control.
I'm conflicted. On one hand, I'm American and believe in free speech. On the other hand, I want assholes to be held accountable for lying.
So conflicted.
I like the idea of not letting stupid people spread misinformation on the internet (unless it's myself), but this is just gatekeeping the right to speak out in public about certain topics which I find deeply problematic.
There’s got to be something to do for accountability, but ….
Just want to point out the guy who made up the whole vaccine-autism scare was a scientist. All of the propaganda against anti-smoking, anti-climate change, anti-pollution, anti-lead efforts over the years has been produced by scientists
Educated people are people too. Just because they should know better doesn’t mean they are
Yeah, I think more is being lost here than "solved". Sometimes you need to ask simple questions about complex things. Ask any teacher and they'll say that students deepen their own understanding just as much as they teach back. It's part of the flow of creative ideas and inspiration. Everybody should have the right to be curious, ask questions, learn and make new discoveries.
Instead, this feels like "You are only allowed to have ideas once you've gone through the propogandization program to have the right ones". But I still do agree that we need to start trying lots of things to combat misinformation. Maybe a rebrand of education to show how much more interesting reality is than conspiracy theories. A focus on the truth that so much remains unknown, and conspiracy theories are like unhealthy junk food that never satiates that truth.
Idk how to feel about this. If this news came from the UK, the replies would've been:
you got a loicense for that, mate?
But because it's China, people will gladly glaze this move.
"Nanny State"
Somehow we don't get memed on for that, even though it's all the same downunder.
There's no shortage of bad faith influencers who have degrees and misinform anyway. Such laws shouldn't be centered on pressuring people into expensive educational programs. They should focus on outlawing claims that are demonstrably false and harmful.
Does a degree cost anything in China other than time and effort?
While I am pretty skeptical of US-style polemics on free speech, I of course support free expression, strong journalistic culture, limiting the influence of oligarch propaganda and significant safeguards to censorship.
That being said there are clear externalities to easy access to digital content distribution platforms that prioritize engagement above all else and do not bear responsibility for their actions.
I of course would never trust the CCP on this, but I think in the long term the externalities inherent to social media distribution will have to be accounted for.
Curious to see if this leads to licenses or degrees being revoked as universities have their name tied to what people are saying.
The idea is great on paper, but execution is everything.
It's China. I'm sure there will be executions.
I'm sure there's ways to see it as a bad thing, but the idea of only letting experts on a subject speak publicly about the subjects sounds like it could be really beneficial, particularly in some areas.
Of course if universities are corrupted or controlled it's definitely a bad thing. And of course shitty people are always going to be trying to control whatever mechanism or criteria keeps certain people from speaking.
But it's a nice idea.
Is it a nice idea?
Of course, I see the good side, too. However, besides the possible negatives you've already mentioned, I feel like this measure begs the question: Should everyday people be allowed to sway public opinion?
I think the answer is, unequivocally, YES! I think it is wrong to say that you need a degree to comment on a topic or that you need a degree to say what you think, publicly, about a topic.
I very much appreciate stricter regulation on misinformation, but this is concerning.
I suppose it will depend on how and how much they enforce this.
I also have mixed feelings about it but come out on the side of this is bad.
I feel like this measure begs the question: Should everyday people be allowed to sway public opinion?
They should be able to sway public opinion on things that are a matter of opinion, not on things that are proven facts.
I’m specifically thinking of anti-vaxxers here. The US is currently suffering from its largest measles outbreak since 1992 when the disease was declared eliminated in 2000. We shouldn’t be having this problem and it’s caused by people sharing opinions that contradict with scientifically proven facts.
The reason that I come out on the side of the law being bad is that the line between things that should require a degree to talk about and things that shouldn’t isn’t an easily defined one so the law is very open to abuse.
not on things that are proven facts.
I think this is much, much harder to pin down than you seem to be implying.
It isn't particularly hard to find research that, at least partially, seems to corroborate or lend credence to some of the more asinine beliefs ripping US public health to shreds. It's also not particularly hard to find people with degrees or certificates, people in positions of authority, that spout that stuff. Tylenol? Yeah. If people take this law to mean that "if you see the Qualified Expert^TM^ badge on a video, you can trust the information," then I fear misinformation might have a new weapon.
What I mean to say is that, at the end of the day, it seems like it'll be up to the state authorities to decide (1) who counts as a qualified expert, and (2) what subjects require qualifications to be discussed, and I do think that both are dangerous premises.
I'm not certain it's a bad idea though, I really can't say which side I land on, for now.
Disclaimer: I didn't read the article
I think it depends on how you define "influencer". Talking about these topics should absolutely be possible and forbidding it is censorship. But influencer with ten thousands or more followers have a responsibility and I think it's necessary to enforce some kind of quality and to prevent misinformation.
If the way China does it is the right way I don't know, but I can see why they are doing it.
I think it depends on how you define “influencer”.
It seems to me that it's basically anyone that posts content. I read both the linked article and the referenced CNBC article, and there doesn't seem to be any clarification on the issue...
It's one thing to curb misinfo, but this smell like trying to control the population. You can't just blanket ban people from speaking a certain topic, that's like saying all science communicator now need to have science degree to talk about science. Now they say only people with degree able to talk about it, then if someone talk about topic not permitted, they lose their privilege. It's a very basic tactic for authoritarian.
Apparently people with degrees cannot lie
I once worked for a CPA who asked me what a balance sheet was for.
He was from a wealthy Tibetan family dynasty and clearly paid his way into the industry, but who knows why he would choose to do that because he clearly was completely over his head.
We used to call him Michael Scott sans charisma.
Is this really true? I cast suspicion because to me it sounds like they are trying to convince the world that whatever comes out of their influencers about the topics they are interested to push is of higher quality than the rest of the world.
Oh the media keeps reporting that there are human rights abuse going on some place remote. Those are obvious lies because our double MBA PhD influencer is quite clear that everyone is happy.
Yes it would be nice if only knowledgeable people spoke on complex subjects in a language that allows less knowledgeable people to understand. But one has to be able to trust what is being said.
seems like a way to silence dissident speak, or rhetoric, anything critical of the CCP.
That's banned by default. They are targeting uneducated nonsense.
lol
I get that you don’t want misinformation happening on certain topics. The scary part comes when you’re going to decide to police it. Can you still share info on the health journey of you or your loved one? Can you still ask people to buy your products that are meant to save more money in the long run than they cost? Can you tell people you had a bad experience with a certain bank? Not a fan of the approach, but I do understand the basic concept of why they’d want to do something.
Genuinely curious if anyone has info on how something like this is enforced.
Selectively. If there are enough laws on the books that everyone is in violation all the time you can justify taking down anyone at any time.
everyone loves censorship
Personally I'd like to see a total global ban of social media.
Humans aren't designed to communicate with this many people at once, and it shows.
I don't think we'd lose anything of value even if we banned all influencers from speaking online on social media on any topic, so I can see why China's done this.
