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138

'Tesla shame' bypasses Norway as sales jump despite Musk's politics (www.reuters.com)

submitted 3 months ago by schizoidman@lemmy.zip to c/europe@feddit.org

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[–] 332@feddit.nu 98 points 3 months ago (4 children)

The fuck are you doing Norway, hold the line.

[–] latenightnoir@lemmy.blahaj.zone 75 points 3 months ago

It's shit like this that brings me closer and closer to being convinced that we're completely fucked as a species. We can't even keep it in our pants when the fucking Fascists are at play...

[–] Kirp123@lemmy.world 21 points 3 months ago (1 children)

Musk is not fucking over their country (yet) so they don't give a shit.

[–] breecher@sh.itjust.works 2 points 3 months ago

He is a billionaire, he is definitely fucking up their country, just as he is fucking up every single county, just by being a billionaire doing billionaire things.

[–] puddinghelmet@feddit.nl 2 points 3 months ago

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[–] homesweethomeMrL@lemmy.world 36 points 3 months ago

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Norway. Not cool, bro.

[–] reddig33@lemmy.world 33 points 3 months ago (1 children)

Bizarre. So many other EV options.

[+] JasSmith@sh.itjust.works -6 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago) (3 children)

In Norway (and Denmark), for the price, there is nothing which compares for range, performance, boot space, and software with the Model Y. I know it's taboo on Lemmy to speak well of Teslas but there's a reason it's been the best selling car in the world for two years running. It's a great family car. Prove me wrong. What's an EV with better range, performance, and boot space for the price?

[–] reddig33@lemmy.world 23 points 3 months ago (2 children)

Don’t know what the prices are in Norway, but a Hyundai Ionic 5 and Kia EV 6 have a similar range and price in the US. The Equinox is substantially cheaper at $35k with a 319 mi range. Only 10 mile shorter range than the base Model Y.

https://www.caranddriver.com/tesla/model-y-2025

https://www.caranddriver.com/chevrolet/equinox-ev

https://www.caranddriver.com/hyundai/ioniq-5

[–] fry@lemmy.sdf.org 4 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago)

Norway has had the highest subsidies for electric vehicles in the world. Not sure how it is nowadays but if they aren't number one they're definitely in the top. I live in Scandinavia but not in Norway. This is only what I can remember, there may be more:

No registration fee. It's like 10 000 USD for a diesel.
No VAT/taxes on the purchase
No congestion fees
Allowed to drive in bus lanes
Free parking
No toll fees (and there are tolls absolutely everywhere)

You can get a brand new Model Y in Norway for about 40 000 USD.

Just for comparison: that's roughly what a new premium car costs in neighbouring countries. Add 10K if you want it to be electric. 20k if you want more range than a few km and any kind of comfort and quality.

[–] JasSmith@sh.itjust.works 3 points 3 months ago (1 children)

The Ioniq 5 AWD has 11% less range and 9% less boot space and costs 15% more than the Model Y AWD.

The Kia EV 6 has 10% less range and 16% less boot space and costs 7% more than the Model Y AWD.

The Equinox has 7% less range and 9% less boot space and is 65% slower 0-60 (7.6s vs 4.6s).

None of these are comparable unless you pick only one of the metrics and ignore everything else. I also ran a comparison on cheaper variants and the Model Y increased its lead in some categories.

[–] Nick@mander.xyz 8 points 3 months ago (1 children)

On the topic of ignoring everything else, I don't think boot space and range tell the entire story of a car's value. The EV6 and the Ioniq 5 both have much better suspensions and a quieter cabin than the Tesla, and both offer the option to change the baseline level of regenerative braking being applied for a smoother transition for drivers getting used to an EV platform (or anyone who just doesn't want to use one-pedal driving). I personally disliked the Tesla software experience in my parents' Model Y, which makes it so annoying that everything has to be done through the tablet. Both HMG cars have at least some buttons and knobs (and actual air vents!), and the option to use Android Auto/Apple CarPlay. The range thing is also pretty driver dependent. I'm averaging slightly better efficiency on my EV6 than my parents' Model Y even with more freeway miles, probably because I'm able to frequently coast.

If you get severe range anxiety/don't have access to a home charger or are consistently filling up your trunk to the brim, then yeah you should buy a used Model Y. But for anyone else who might be considering an EV, I'd encourage you not to write the other 3 off (I have no experience with the Equinox, I didn't even start looking for used ones because it doesn't have Android Auto/Apple CarPlay, and only has an 8 year free access to Maps in their infotainment system).

[–] JasSmith@sh.itjust.works 1 points 3 months ago

It's true that different people value different things. This is why my first comment makes it clear that the metrics which I value (and which tend to feature very high on polling of features which EV customers value) are range, performance, boot space, and (to a lesser degree) software.

I also disagree re suspension and cabin noise. I've test driven both the most recent Ioniq 5 and Model Y, and they're both very good, but I would give the edge to the Model Y. You'd have been correct last year though. The Juniper refresh made some quite substantial updates. If you're into cars, EVs, or even engineering this video with Jay Leno talking about the engineering of the refresh with Tesla's Head of Design and VP of Vehicle Engineering was super interesting.

I also prefer buttons and knobs and the EV 6 has more but I have to be honest, I hated the touch buttons. It felt like the worst of both worlds. Totally fair that this is subjective and it obviously clicked well with you.

Ultimately I agree that people should try out all three if they're in the market (I also have no experience with the Equinox). Our decision came down mostly to the factors we care about the most. I don't think one needs to feel "severe range anxiety" to prefer an EV with longer range. It might not be a deal breaker, but it's a very nice thing to have in an EV. That's the top polled feature for EV buyers. I also agree that driving style make a big difference to range, no matter the EV.

[–] SuperZorro@discuss.tchncs.de 4 points 3 months ago (1 children)

Well that’s not true. There are plenty of options, XPENG is pretty much a 1 to 1 upgrade.

[–] JasSmith@sh.itjust.works 1 points 3 months ago

It looks pretty good in terms of price and performance. Worse range, but only about 5%. The big issue is boot space. It's about half as much. It could be a good option for singles or couples without kids.

[–] Bob@feddit.org 2 points 3 months ago (1 children)

Tesla Model Y AWD LR

Boot space: 9 + 1 banana boxes/420 L (ADAC)
Power: 384 hp
Range: 568 km
Price: 535 813 NOK

KIA EV6 AWD LR

Boot space: 9 banana boxes
Power: 325 hp
Range: 546 km
Price: 519 900 NOK

VW ID.4 GTX Businessline

Boot space: 9 banana boxes /455 L (ADAC)
Power: 340 hp
Range: 563 km
Price: 524 272 NOK

Skoda Elroq RS

Boot space: 8 banana boxes/470 L (manufacturer says so)
Power: 335 hp
Range: 547 km
Price: 486 700 NOK

BMW i4 xDrive40

Boot space: 5 banana boxes/470 L (manufacturer says so)
Power: 400 hp
Range: 533 km
Price: 617 000 NOK

Software is subjective, I guess. But in my opinion always-on heavy regenerative braking, no indicator stalk, shift buttons in the ceiling, and a complete lack of other buttons, are pretty glaring issues. The Tesla is in no way leaps and bounds ahead of the competition.

By buying a Tesla, you are choosing to support a company that actively works against the rules-based international order, and against the interests of the country you live in. You are supporting them with hundreds of thousands of kroner. Our position as consumers is the only way we can effect change in today's world, and by supporting Tesla you are wasting it.

[–] JasSmith@sh.itjust.works 1 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago) (1 children)

It looks like you used ChatGPT here because some of these are incorrect. Especially the boot space for the Tesla. It appears that ChatGPT cited this but Tesla very clearly provides measurements for the boot with the rear seats up: 822L. 938 if we include the frunk. Adac.de is off by 123%. Further, banana boxes are rectangular. They don't measure the actual capacity of a boot. Most people aren't strictly loading their boot with rectangular suitcases. We load them up with things like groceries, jackets, golf clubs, and duffel bags. I'm also confused as to why you would use hp instead of 0-100kph. Because of the very different technologies used in these cars, hp doesn't accurately represent performance. I updated your table with the correct info:

Tesla Model Y AWD LR

Boot space: 822 L + frunk 116 L

0-100kmh: 4.8s

Range: 586 km

Price: 535 813 NOK

KIA EV6 AWD LR

Boot space: 490 L (480 L with premium sound) + frunk 20 L

0-100kmh: 5.2s

Range: 546 km

Price: 519 900 NOK

VW ID.4 GTX Businessline

Boot space: 543 L (no frunk)

0-100kmh: 5.4s

Range: 505 km

Price: 524 272 NOK

Skoda Elroq RS

Boot space: 470 L (no frunk)

0-100kmh: 5.4s

Range: 547 km

Price: 486 700 NOK

BMW i4 xDrive40

Boot space: 470 L (hatch; no frunk)

0-100kmh 5.1s

Range: 533 km

Price: 617 000 NOK

These are some fairly large differences. Especially in terms of boot space, which is quite important for families.

But in my opinion always-on heavy regenerative braking, no indicator stalk, shift buttons in the ceiling, and a complete lack of other buttons, are pretty glaring issues.

The Model Y has always retained the indicator and shift stalks. However I would also prefer more physical buttons.

By buying a Tesla, you are choosing to support a company that actively works against the rules-based international order, and against the interests of the country you live in. You are supporting them with hundreds of thousands of kroner. Our position as consumers is the only way we can effect change in today’s world, and by supporting Tesla you are wasting it.

All of the car companies above have been involved in immoral and illegal activities. Far worse than Tesla, including child labour, slave labour, Nazi collaboration, and Dieselgate. If you wish for people to not purchase from companies which have acted immorally or illegal, which ones do you suggest? Personally, I wish for companies to become more competitive. Shaming people for buying better products doesn't really work. What works is producing better products.

[–] Bob@feddit.org 1 points 3 months ago (1 children)

I did not use ChatGPT. I wrote and formatted all of that myself. I used Bjørn Nyland’s banana box test (google docs link) and ADAC’s measurements where they were available. The only number I could find on Tesla’s website was “2138 L”, which seemed unrealistic to me, and I assumed ADAC would have more objective data.

I stand corrected about the indicator stalk. I still don’t believe it has a shift stalk. The website only mentions the touch screen and overhead buttons, and Top Gear says that it doesn’t have one.

VW was founded by nazis, sure. But they are not actively supporting nazis currently. Tesla is supporting authoritarianism, immigration detention centres, and one-sided and unpredictable trade barriers that impose an unfair disadvantage on European manufacturers. And the company’s CEO actually performs nazi salutes at rallies. Surely you can see the difference? I wouldn’t suggest that you buy a German car in the thirties.

I think this should be a big part of your purchasing decision. By collectively not supporting Tesla, we can make them change their policies. You don’t make a lot of concessions when buying a Hyundai or Skoda instead. And if you like competition so much, maybe you shouldn’t buy from the company that supports massive tariffs on European, Japanese, and Korean cars?

[–] JasSmith@sh.itjust.works 1 points 3 months ago (1 children)

I can confirm the 2023, 2024, and 2025 Model Ys all have indicator stalks here in Norway and Denmark

Skoda is part of the VW group, which was found guilty of cheating emissions standards. The environmental damage caused by this is nearly incalculable, but studies indicate 1,200 people dill die prematurely as a result in Europe alone, and 60 in the U.S. They estimate that 2,600 more deaths could have been prevented had VW fully recalled and retrofitted all affected vehicles by 2017 - but they did not.

Hyundai has also been found to be cheating emissions standards, and were found to be using child labour in Alabama.

I'm sorry but if you think a Nazi salute or political donations are worse than child labour and killing thousands of people, I think you need to realign your priorities.

Lastly, Musk clearly doesn't support tariffs:

Musk said he offers his advice and has been on record voicing his opposition to tariffs.

If you would join me in not buying from VW or Skoda, we could send a message to these companies that killing people and using child labour is wrong.

[–] steiner@nrw.social 1 points 3 months ago

@JasSmith @Bob you are right. Good that there are other companies that you can still support and don’t need to worry about VW or Musk…

[–] Formfiller@lemmy.world 27 points 3 months ago

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[–] Kazumara@discuss.tchncs.de 15 points 3 months ago

I'd sooner buy a BYD than a Tesla. Can't understand the Norwegian buyers at all on this.

[–] melsaskca@lemmy.ca 9 points 3 months ago

Who can afjord a new car nowadays?

[–] baconmonsta@piefed.social 8 points 3 months ago (1 children)

But it's really all about the charging infrastructure and the seamless technology of the car. No one comes even close."

Norway is big and sparsely populated. Having access to supercharging stations really makes several hours difference on your roadtrip if you exceed the car's range

[–] brainwashed@feddit.org 3 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago) (1 children)

idk how it is in norway, but don't they have to let anyone charge there by now?

[–] baconmonsta@piefed.social 4 points 3 months ago (1 children)

I understood they let anyone charge only on paper, using higher fees as a barrier for non-teslas. I might be wrong though.

[–] rbesfe@lemmy.ca 1 points 3 months ago

Also not every station supports universal charging. Rates I've seen range from $0.4/kWh to $0.65/kWh (CAD)

[–] NIB@lemmy.world 3 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago) (1 children)

The norwegians are shameless subhumans, unlike the englightened swedes, where Tesla has experienced a 90%+ drop in sales.

[–] pyre@lemmy.world 3 points 3 months ago

God i hope i can visit Sweden again someday

[–] Frostbeard@lemmy.world 2 points 3 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

The reason might be because they pushed the new model Y with a zero down payment, zero interest at start loan. Norway has experienced higher inflation and interests rates than Sweden and coupled with NOK being a volatile currency experiencing a pretty severe devaluation that option seems good right now.

And Tesla as had a high star for years in Norway being among the most mature EV markets. Tesla was early into the Norwegian market.

[–] oyzmo@lemmy.world 1 points 3 months ago

😭 .... Norway in population size equals a medium big city in other countries, so it doesn't really make that much of an impact 😆