When I see the rising popularity of those Ram or F150 monstrosities in small (sub) urban areas it makes me cry for humanity a bit
this post was submitted on 13 Jun 2025
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It makes me cry a lot. I live in an urban part of Germany and there used to be 0 Pickup trucks in my residential area but in the last few years a bunch of those popped up. There are no parking lots those things fit onto and I only ever the them pulling a small trailer, the loading bed is never used. And one of them has a Confederate Flag on it...
The Confederate Flag thing is just laughable. I will never understand why some Europeans are so hung up on American politics.
In Amsterdam there was one of those pickups parked partly on tram rails. Imagine being that much of a prick.
This is anecdotal but there are several new Ram โ giant monster trucks in my corner of rural France (as well Mustangs, Camaros, etc.). These are not work vehicles. They are kept spotlessly clean. The owners most likely drive a tractor in their day job. Also there are giant Fiat trucks, which I can understand even less. So many narrow streets around here. I suppose they are symbolic icons in the mind of the drivers.
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They need to bring back the sporty station wagon/estate. Visibility is better while having the same cargo space as an SUV
The only low nose electric station wagon you can buy today is a Porsche Taycan and that one is not a true station wagon. Since the back is more like a hot hatch.
Volkswagen ID7 Tourer?
Audi Avant?
Subaru should bring back the legacy wagon and return the Outback to its bubbly premium sibling. They spilled look exactly the same as they did in the 90s but with modern safety features and better gas mileage. Bonus points if you can get it with a tape deck.
That would be the best car for basically everyone.
What makes you say the Taycan Cross/Sport Turismo isn't a true station wagon? Certainly has the utility of one, and markedly more rear cargo space than most hatchbacks
I have one so hopefully I don't sound overly defensive, it's awesome enough that any technicality would be silly to actually quibble over. Just friendly curiosity about the thought!
Edit just to say: the station wagon/estate is the pinnacle of passenger car design, I absolutely adore them and deeply wish we had more of them and fewer crossovers or SUVs
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I call on the EU to limit new cars, period. Public transport needs ti be massively improved and made cheaper everywhere. Buying cars should be limited to those who actually need them, like disabled people, vehicles for transporting goods and such.
Limiting sucks. If we try to get shit done by taking away, it'll never happen. No limiting.
But there seems to be an interesting phenomenon in between public transit and driving. Like if you have a popular destination with shitty public transit, it'll take a ton of time to get there by car due to congestion.
So make public transit go brrr, maybe slap some extra tax on vehicles, and see people abandon cars in favor of a working public transport by themselves, without any external limiting factors.
Just do what we do here, and have like, six parking spots at a beach, and ticket anyone who parks illegally. It encourages bike and bus use :)
Maybe I was just hallucinating and imagined adding extra hurdles to vehicle ownership. I think that's what scares most people away when it comes to freeing up public space.
I am all for walkable cities with proper bike infrastructure and railed transit. But I feel it is an important distinction that we try not to make things harder on the 'other end', and instead concentrate on new city infrastructure being created that focuses on being friendly to everything besides convenience motorists.
So like everyone can still get a car, just make it not really worth it, in a good way. There, I solved world hunger.
Our city is fairly dense, so unfortunately there's no room to build extra parking or even new roads. We have been forced to get creative, but the benefit is that a lot more people are using bikes and rail now that the city core has bike lanes that can get you just about anywhere. The latest development is that women and children are starting to bike in our city, which is a promising sign for safety (North American city).
Our city is still struggling to marry up mass transit with last mile transit such as bikes, ebikes and other PEVs. The buses and trains are starting to get bike racks that can accommodate modern bikes, but it's still difficult to find bike lockers or bike valet services downtown, and it's still too easy to get your bike nicked.
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These sort of decisions, like with phasing out petrol products, could have been made on much shorter timelines.
Like, everyone would survive if starting tomorrow you couldn't buy an SUV or a pickup any more, or a car longer than 5m or whatever.
Industries are overall more expensive for everyone if you give them 10 year timelines to limit something that is killing people & destroying the environment (which is just 10 years of lobbying anyway). It also helps concentrate wealth even more on the count of public safety & wellbeing.
Countless industries have to adapt to sudden changes all the time. Only the truly powerful industries/megacorps don't have to bcs lobby magic.
And another issue: We are currently seeing politics reversing the planned "bans" (which are not really bans) on petrol engines. So if you're doing a phasing out of something, you have to ensure that no lobbying effort will be successful in the years until your ban starts. You have to ensure that no corrupt rightwing government, no "conservative" party "friendly" to companies and no Trump will gain power in the meantime.
Yes, prolonging the status quo is one of the most common lobby tactics, and the most successful.
That's why we have petrol based plastic recycling instead of naturally degradable plastics.
Just don't adjust parking spaces and fine them for overflowing it. The problem will solve its self very quickly then.
The problem is height not necessarily length or width.
I'd also add some limits on weight or a way to push manfucaturers to make lighter cars. Lethality increases with the mass of the vehicle as well. Average car is 400kg heavier than it was 8 years ago. All the extra mileage wasted on carrying leather couches just to be more lethal when we get into accidents
Much more road wear as weight increases too
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stops working on his 4th dimensional car
I swear...
Seriously need to get on this, Monaco was a snoozefest
kek
New sustainability rule: two tyre changes every time you commute to work ๐
They just need to introduce a special Monaco specโed, remove the electric engine and batteries and they can make a shorter car.
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I have a simple Toyota Yaris, I manage to put INSIDE it my huge e-mountainbike (29" wheels, 30+ kg, that thing looks like a tank) and my inflatable 2-seat kayak, along with a suitcase and safety equipment, when I go on vacation.
This might look a bit extreme, but on the other hand SUV people should need to realize they don't need 5 cubic meters of air around them to go from point A to point B
If you fit that in a Yaris, you have to acknowledge that you are a god among men.
Plus, SUV do not have as much space as people like to believe compared to a sedan (as the bedframe is the same as a car in most occasions).
To be fair, I'm alone in the car. The kayak (deflated in a bag) sits on the passenger seat and the paddles go diagonally across the car, but it's fairly easy to fit it all
Hm. Don't know.
This one?
Yeah, can be banned.
But this one?
Don't know. While it's a fair bit shorter than an f150, it's still a big-ass car. But is it an unethical car? It fits a lot of stuff or a lot of people or a fair amount of both, but I guess the same thing is true for the f150. Visibility is much better I guess, but would pick ups be more moral if they had a lower hood?
Like, yeah, I hate pick ups, too, but what's their defining aspect? What's the law that gets rid of large SUVs but keeps station wagons? Or is the law just going to get rid of all larger cars?
I'm not trying to argue against the idea of banning dick comparison cars, this is a genuine question.
What's the law that gets rid of large SUVs but keeps station wagons? Or is the law just going to get rid of all larger cars?
We've had station wagons for a very long time now. A big Ford Mondeo we had was a relatively low car, without an enormous bonnet.
Cars continue to get wider, longer and higher off the ground (there's this Kia that looks like you're driving around in a fridge), whilst the stuff we move within them isn't exactly increasing. it's just bigger for the sake of being bigger, and that's causing issues in the streets.
it's just bigger for the sake of being bigger
Not true for every car. Small cars get bigger, too, but because nowadays there are way more safety features built in. Side impact protection needs space, too, for example. Also, especially smaller cars get more roomy and comfortable, too (except the Twingo, for some reason).
That being said: fuck SUVs and trucks. They're much bigger than they need to be and just status symbols.
We've had station wagons for a very long time now. A big Ford Mondeo we had was a relatively low car, without an enormous bonnet.
Cars continue to get wider, longer and higher off the ground (there's this Kia that looks like you're driving around in a fridge), whilst the stuff we move within them isn't exactly increasing. it's just bigger for the sake of being bigger, and that's causing issues in the streets.
You are missing my point. To turn this into a law, there need to be clear rules of what is or isn't allowed.
The Kia you're talking about is this one I guess? The EV5?
Unfortunately, the size comparison site I used doesn't have that, but it is apparently similar to their "Sportage" SUV, so I took the long wheel base version of that one to compare it against your old Mondeo...
... which is longer than the SUV...
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... and only 5cm less wide ...
whilst the stuff we move within them isn't exactly increasing
... and has much less cargo volume.
So, what kind of rules do you come up with to get rid of the one but not the other? Height? Then what about the vans? And how is height making a car more or less unethical?
So far, the 3.5 ton weight limit seems to have worked well for keeping the most ridiculous American cars off European streets. But it seems that's not enough, so what other rules could be used to define which cars shouldn't be allowed to drive around? It's obviously not weight because we already have that. It's apparently not the size because despite most arguments, SUVs aren't always much bigger than other cars that are usually perceived as fine. So what is it??
Bonnet height, as the article suggests. Or do the responsible thing and measure front visibility, so you don't hit vans in the process.
But isn't that already part of regulations 78/2009 and 2019/2144?
I mean, I'm all for it, but if it's just that it seems the goal is to get more detailed regulations for the bonnet then that's great, but I fail to see how that would get rid of SUVs or other larger cars.
Also don't misunderstand me there... Reducing bonnet height to protect pedestrians on impact is a good thing and should be done. I just don't think it'd reduce car weight or size, so if that's the goal then it won't help.
EuroNCAP suggested to try to change something, apparently they are not catching in their test, but they acknowledge the issue
https://etsc.eu/calls-grow-to-address-safety-risks-of-large-vehicles-in-urban-areas/
Euro NCAP calls upon the vehicle industry to improve the vehicle crash compatibility of future models and not to accept settling for the status quo. It believes Mobile Progressive Deformable Barrier testing can help manufacturers engineer their cars and vans to better protect occupants in the event of a head-on collision
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But is it an unethical car? It fits a lot of stuff or a lot of people or a fair amount of both, but I guess the same thing is true for the f150. Visibility is much better I guess, but would pick ups be more moral if they had a lower hood?
some thoughts about your post
- nobody would buy a van if not in need, because it's not cool, it costs more etc. So you would end up having less big vehicles on the road. There is no need to regulate too much something that is numerically not important
- the hood height for the van is lower and visibility is better: you can find a lot of studies that connect the former with less killings and less serious injuries and the latter with less collisions, so definitely less dangerous
- i actually think that if pickups had lower hoods, they would be more moral, yes, because they would be less dangerous. (see above)
- i actually think that if pickups had lower hoods, they would be more moral, yes, because they would be less dangerous. (see above)
Fair point. I agree.
I always assumed that the bonnet height was one of the reasons why you couldn't really drive one of those in Europe anyway. But if that's not the case then yes, adjusting that should be done.
(Also I drive a van and I think it's cool since obviously I'm cool and so my car kinda has to be, too, so I'm not sure if I agree with your first point.)
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Sometimes I love the EU.
Slow down your love: this is just a proposal from a bunch of associations. On the other side there are car industry lobbies and their enormous profit margins, which are particularly strong. Let's see what happens
I almost always do.
Car regulation isn't an area I'm particularity proud of tho, but it isn't stagnant.
Imho EU does a really good job on preparing regulations, get every stakeholders groups opinion, think through the reporting (which is ofc always a chore, but otherwise laws are useless/unenforceable/unchecked, and you miss out on major decision-making market data, or early warnings), and then constantly gathering info & holding meetings on how to evolve the legislation for the next iteration (once you have data you can see what was over- and under-kill, or what was missed & what new things/outside changes affect the market).
CanyonerNO
I recently read Stellantis wants to push for Kei car regulations in the EU. I'll take a used Nissan Pao.
I do love seeing car parking spaces get tighter and tighter. The bigger the cars, the less road and parking there is go around. Unlike the US, European cities will not be demolishing themselves to make room. The future is not cars.
Limit new cars by 2026, there, fixed it.
I really hope they include a maximum volume.
The giant camper vans that are within a cm of each maximum size that already exists, driven on a normal car license by people who have never driven something larger than a VW Golf is terrible.
Too bad that'll never happen, would be too unpopular politically.
You're right. For further illustration, go do a web search for "kei car". The shape of these things is entirely driven by Japanese regulation that gives cars with limited size/weight/motorization certain tax/usage advantages. There are very few of these cars on Japanese roads that are not space-maximizing boxy microvans.
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