this post was submitted on 06 Nov 2025
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“At present, the lede and the overall presentation state, in Wikipedia’s voice, that Israel is committing genocide, although that claim is highly contested,” Wales said. He added that a “neutral approach would begin with a formulation such as: ‘Multiple governments, NGOs, and legal bodies have described or rejected the characterization of Israel’s actions in Gaza as genocide.’” Currently, the article bases its position that a genocide exists on conclusions from United Nations investigations, the International Association of Genocide Scholars, and “multiple human rights groups,” among others.

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[–] andrewrgross@slrpnk.net 53 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (9 children)

I know this is an unpopular opinion, but I think Wales is correct.

I understand this seems irrational, because of course Israel committed genocide in Gaza. And Wikipedia's job is to describe reality, right?

Wrong. Wikipedia's job is to describe historical and scientific consensus. It is fundamental to their mission that they do all they can to avoid arbitrating disputes. I know that's painful, but it's a matter of roles: academics and media organizations arbitrate, and Wikipedia's role is to catalog and communicate the consensus these organizations reach.

It's terrible that a minority of biased actors have managed to prevent media and academic institutions from reaching consensus when the subject is so straightforward and obvious. But until that is addressed, unfortunately Wikipedia is hampered from describing the consensus reality by the needs of their core mission. They are designed to be downstream of these organizations, and they have to be to remain effective to their core mission. It's like how the UN lets war criminals like Netanyahu visit and speak. As much as we'd all like them to kick him the hell out, doing so undermines the core purpose of the institution. It's uncomfortable, but it's the job description.

I think one solution is that their should be more than one crowd-sourced encyclopedia for the world. Wikipedia will always suffer from a Western, English-speaking bias.

[–] WraithGear@lemmy.world 27 points 2 days ago (4 children)

is consensus even a thing? and considering the groups that make up the group saying it’s not a genocide, it would be like giving a murder equal say in his conviction at trial.

genocide has a definition, isreal far exceeded all criteria, israel has and is currently committing genocide.

unless there is a new definition that excludes israel but also doesn’t exclude the holocaust without naming the parties i don’t know of

[–] corsicanguppy@lemmy.ca 0 points 2 days ago (3 children)

giving a murder equal say in his conviction at trial.

You guys don't allow the accused a defence?

[–] WraithGear@lemmy.world 13 points 2 days ago

say in his conviction. the accused does not get to deliberate upon their own guilt

[–] leftzero@lemmy.dbzer0.com 12 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

When the accused has been repeatedly recorded murdering and raping people in plain view of the public while cackling maniacally and yelling “and I'll do it again!”..?

...sure, but we'll still call a spade a spade, and a genocide a genocide.

[–] Doomsider@lemmy.world 1 points 1 day ago

Sure, then you lock them up for being war criminals.

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