this post was submitted on 06 Dec 2025
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[–] reksas@sopuli.xyz 64 points 1 day ago (2 children)

oh it was a bug, i thought they did it on purpose to force people to use their stupid ai crap.

[–] damnedfurry@lemmy.world 17 points 1 day ago

You thought that because the headline is pretty deliberately misleading. Clickbait trash.

[–] tekdeb@lemmy.zip 4 points 1 day ago

Even Microsoft (probably) isn't that stupid or desperate yet. What seems much more likely to me is that they will keep introducing AI features and more invasive ads gradually and making them opt-in or removable with the intention of making them mandatory later on.

I 100% believe that Microsoft fully understands that a lot of people aren't happy with most of these changes, but profit must grow and they are elbow-deep in their AI gamble so they must keep pushing just slowly enough to avoid most users and businesses feeling like looking for alternatives is worth the effort. They are treading a fine line and are sometimes pushing too hard, but that in itself can be a solid negotiation tactic to manipulate people into accepting bad deals and my guess is that it's fully intentional.

[–] melfie@lemy.lol 53 points 1 day ago (2 children)

I hate Windows as much as the next person, but the title is clickbait. It’s an update bug that affects a small number of users, but the title misleadingly suggests Microsoft deliberately removed this functionality.

[–] humanspiral@lemmy.ca 11 points 1 day ago

It's genuinely bad, even if entire universe isn't affected. Shows sloppiness. Headline is too kind for implying this could be "some kind of design upgrade", instead of FUBAR.

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[–] Fizz@lemmy.nz 39 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (5 children)

I'm honestly starting to not believe these articles. On an up to date version of w11 I never see any of the changes these articles claim are happening. I'm a linux user so I like laughing at windows as much as the next guy but i dont want to be an idiot falling for misinfo.

If you want comedy, look at the apple help fourms. You think linux users reimage alot the only troubleshooting step apple has is to reimage.

[–] FireWire400@lemmy.world 15 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (5 children)

the only troubleshooting step apple has is to reimage.

That's not entirely true. More often than not, the only troubleshooting step the "Apple Certified Professionals" there offer is to buy a new Mac.

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[–] DudeImMacGyver@kbin.earth 14 points 1 day ago (3 children)

Never in my life have I needed to reimage any Linux machine, but I have had to reimage many, many, many windows machines and quite a few Apple devices too. I have a long career in IT (and even before that, I've been building computers since I was 12), so my sample size consists of thousands of computers going back decades.

I've only ever reimaged Linux systems when I felt like distro hopping for fun. Maybe I've just been lucky, but I think it's probably more to do with the fact that Linux tends to be extremely reliable once you have it set up (unless you manage to break it, but even then there are usually multiple ways to fix it without reimaging).

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[–] BananaTrifleViolin@lemmy.world 8 points 1 day ago (2 children)

Out of interest, which aspect don't you believe? The article is clear the broken update effects a specific subset of enterprise users, on a specific mix of base versions and cumulative updates.

This seems like a classic windows update issue. In fairness to Microsoft it is difficult to prevent bugs when there is a huge install base, with a huge range of hardware, with a huge range of users on different mixes of updates and updating at their own. I personally think that's totally believable.

What's not clear is perhaps the implied overarching story that W11 is worse for this than other versions of Windows. I can't answer that about windows updates themselves, but I certainly believe W11 is the worst version of Windows I've ever used (and I've used every version back to 3.11 as a kid). I have to use W11 at work: the UI is absolutely terrible and unfriendly but far worse it constantly and inexplicably slows down, programs become unresponsive repeatedly and I come across errors constantly.

I work in a big organisation and I don't even bother to report most errors now - we hop between PCs because of the nature of my Job, and I've come up across so many I just can't be bothered opening more tickets. I'd describe it as a mostly large volume of minor issues and inconveniences that cumulatively, on top of the bad design, that make it a shit experience. But I've also had numerous major errors since we moved from W10 to W11 on different PCs - they all have the same hardware and software yet the problems are different on each. I've given up reporting the problems and just avoid the PCs, and I think a lot of my colleagues are the same.

My organisation (I work in a large Hospital), is already stretched due to high work volume and low staffing and we now have a constantly little drag from Windows 11 on everything we do. It's like Microsoft sprinkle a little bit of shit onto every computer, every day, all day. The cumulative effect in just my organisation must be massive - I shudder to think how bad it is across the whole economy.

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[–] AppleMist@feddit.uk 33 points 1 day ago (3 children)

The article title is clickbaity. It doesn't 'get rid of' the start menu and explorer. It just makes the processes completely hang so you can't open any applications, can't open the menu and can't open task manager to see wtf is going on. You also can't access the shutdown function so you have to manually power off.

This happened to me as I was setting up a Windows 11 / Linux dual boot system yesterday, and the Windows side was behaving as described in the article.

I gave up and just installed Linux alone in the end.

[–] LumiNocta@lemmy.zip 5 points 10 hours ago

This is the way.

[–] dotned@lemmy.world 4 points 1 day ago

The right click context menu for me has been unusable in certain circumstances for me for the past year or so. It's happened on multiple devices, including corporate issued dell and Lenovo machines. The menu options just stop responding to clicking. After getting fed up with this and all the other crap I didn't ask for, I finally just ripped the bandaid off, ditched dual booting, am now on full single boot Linux mint.

And, it's so fucking refreshing. I finally feel like the machines I built and own are mine again.

[–] dual_sport_dork@lemmy.world 4 points 1 day ago

Task Manager is launched by the listener in winlogon if you use the Ctrl + Shift + Esc method though, right? I'm pretty sure you can still launch Task Manager, and from there attempt to relauch Explorer, even if Explorer is borked or not running. You'd just have to know how to do that and that you can.

That's what I always do when Explorer's ears inexplicably catch fire and I'm either too lazy or too naively hopeful to reboot.

For anyone following along at home, Windows Explorer is also responsible for displaying the start menu/taskbar. In the example in the article there's something else funky going on inside Explorer, though, because the taskbar and even the desktop icons are all there, it's just not rendering correctly. (Explorer is also responsible for showing all of your desktop icons.)

[–] SnotFlickerman@lemmy.blahaj.zone 29 points 1 day ago (5 children)

Jesus fucking Christ... Is Microsoft literally vibe-coding everything now? Do these updates not go through any rigorous testing at all before being released into the wild?

The only solution is to re-image?? This is just flat out fucking awful.

Sorry to all those people who went for the LTSC versions of Windows. How the living fuck does this kind of stuff happen.

[–] darkevilmac@lemmy.zip 19 points 1 day ago (2 children)

It's less the vibe coding and more: this is what happens when you have the developers do all the QA and fire the actual QA staff.

They've been screwing up the Windows updates since Windows 10, vibe coding wasn't a thing at that point.

[–] EvilBit@lemmy.world 7 points 1 day ago

I remember hearing about this shift of theirs way back in the early Windows 10 days and thinking, “That sounds like suicidal stupidity but maybe there’s something I don’t know?”

Nope. It’s exactly as I thought.

[–] ohlaph@lemmy.world 5 points 1 day ago (1 children)

Sounds like the development team outsourced the QA work to the customer.

[–] darkevilmac@lemmy.zip 7 points 1 day ago (2 children)

It's less the developer team that did it and more the shareholders and executive team that has turned the product to complete trash.

It's so dumb, even with the AI stuff I wouldn't care that much if it was just a new thing the OS could do if the rest of the thing was actually stable. But they seem to be allergic to doing some actual house cleaning and instead keep bolting things on.

The fact that the explorer can regularly completely freeze up nowadays or flat out crash is actually insane. That should be at the top of the priority list before anything else gets worked on. But instead they decided: let's add a new keyboard shortcut to open a really laggy copilot chat interface.

[–] techt@lemmy.world 5 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

The fact that the explorer can regularly completely freeze up nowadays or flat out crash is actually insane.

This was literally the trigger for my very first Linux experience, it's fucking asinine that something so fundamental to the UX could perform so poorly for such an extended period of time.

I love having to reboot the explorer.exe process in task manager because my taskbar search stops working.

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[–] tidderuuf@lemmy.world 10 points 1 day ago

In a way they are. Their QA was sent overseas and at some point was cut down to basically skeleton crew.

Every engineer at MSFT was recently ordered to use AI.

The bulk of where MSFT makes money is not from its OS but from selling your data and being a cloud provider. They don't really care about the user experience anymore and that has very clearly shown to be their lowest priority for a few years on now.

[–] Aedis@lemmy.world 8 points 1 day ago (1 children)

A lot of what the other comments have said is right, but also add that to on top of all the layoffs theyve had and they keep telling their devs to double their efforts. Its been in so many meetings that at this point a single engineer should be able to do the work of the whole company...

the shareholders keep demanding doubling pace from their engineers but they just wont listen smh

They should just fire all the engineers already theyre clearly slacking off /s

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[–] mlg@lemmy.world 3 points 1 day ago

Do these updates not go through any rigorous testing at all

Lol no, MSFT infamously dropped their entire Hardware QA team after WIndows 7 and instead relied on the also infamous insider hub to get QA "feedback" from home users instead, leading to the also infamous Windows 8 disaster and slightly less infamous critical CVEs that went unaddressed because MSFT ddidn't even bother to read the insider hub posts.

Oh and they didn't learn anything and kept running with the insider hub well into Windows 10 & 11.

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[–] FaceDeer@fedia.io 17 points 1 day ago (4 children)

Okay, wow. I've garnered plenty of downvotes on the Fediverse by not auto-hating many of Microsoft's new features and updates, I'm sure I've been labelled a "Microsoft shill" or somesuch in some folks' user notes. But this is just ridiculous.

The single most important rule Microsoft should have is "thou shalt not brick thy customers' computers with a routine update." Sure, it's not the most common set of triggering conditions in the world, but the problem is immediate and obvious upon booting up. How do they not have a test plan that would catch this?

[–] TriangleSpecialist@lemmy.world 11 points 1 day ago (1 children)

Because the rigour and quality of work that is needed to do good software to get to market is insanely higher than the one required for keeping the money machine alive once you are a monopoly. So as you hire more and more to get your hands in as many pies as possible, have fewer and fewer experienced staff to train the new hires, and do questionable hires in leadership positions, the culture invariably shifts to doing less and less effort, or putting effort in the wrong place, and there you have it.

Now in Microsoft's case, the quality was never that high to begin with (but the scummy practices made up for that), and the pockets are deep aplenty, so I think we are in for quite the shitshow (it can, and it will, get even worse).

[–] orclev@lemmy.world 10 points 1 day ago (2 children)

I'm convinced at this point they're letting the vibe coders write the OS updates. It's the only reasonable explanation for how they keep breaking core OS functionality that shouldn't even be getting updates.

I was going to try and defend them by saying that given the number of recent layoffs, and the push from the higher-ups, they're not necessarily vibe coders by choice.

But then I remembered, I don't give a shit about a company where devs think that rendering characters to a terminal emulator is a PhD-level problem, and that it's a good idea to use react native in your start menu, to only name two.

[–] msage@programming.dev 4 points 1 day ago

They are forcing AI on everyone in Microsoft.

There was an article about it, managers force to use AI to parse workers self reports produced by AI to make sure everyone and everything uses AI.

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[–] SnoringEarthworm@sh.itjust.works 17 points 1 day ago (2 children)

At the moment the only fix is likely a reimage, unless you can get to the registry to make some edits or deploy a Powershell script to delay the launch of Explorer.exe until the system is ready for it.

How has Satya Nadella not been fired for this dumpster fire of a rollout?

[–] MonkderVierte@lemmy.zip 7 points 1 day ago

Because all of them have AI shares.

Because everyone left at the company is as bad as he is or worse?

[–] Daerun@lemmy.world 15 points 1 day ago (3 children)

At this point Win 11 has waaaaay surpassed Vista as the worst windows ever.

[–] alehel@lemmy.zip 5 points 1 day ago (3 children)

Surely ME was worse than Vista?

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[–] Pringles@sopuli.xyz 11 points 1 day ago (3 children)

We're running the oldest supported Windows version in our enterprise just to make sure these non-stop stream of Microsoft fuck-ups doesn't affect us too much.

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[–] goatinspace@feddit.org 11 points 1 day ago (1 children)
[–] antonim@lemmy.dbzer0.com 5 points 1 day ago

vintage 🤌

[–] hodgepodgin@lemmy.zip 10 points 23 hours ago

I can feel the UI lag in the picture

[–] kubofhromoslav@lemmy.world 9 points 1 day ago

It could get rid of whole system and world would be a nicer place 😎

[–] MuskyMelon@lemmy.world 7 points 1 day ago (1 children)

So it's a botched update not a desigbed feature.

[–] db2@lemmy.world 10 points 1 day ago

It's Microsoft, same thing.

[–] BlackEco@lemmy.blackeco.com 7 points 21 hours ago (1 children)

It's a ploy from Microsoft to push Copilot: you have to ask it to open the programs or folders you want. /s

[–] yggstyle@lemmy.world 10 points 19 hours ago

Technicians are baffled how, even with an astounding 90% hallucination rate, this still was more reliable than windows search.

[–] Onsotumenh@discuss.tchncs.de 7 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

*checks that it's not an onion article* Oh..
I think it is time to revive: "It's not a bug, it's a feature!"
Glad I decided to never touch 11. Seems almost customary to skip every second Windows version by now. I'm curious to see if it will be just a skip and they get their shit back together by 12. For now, surprisingly, I do not miss Windows one bit.
I still keep 10 around as dual boot for PCVR. Sure, I got it working (mostly) on Bazzite but its by no means trivial and hassle free. Everything else was smooth sailing most of the time. Just the few times I crashed head first into the immutable nature, caused me a bit of a headache.

[–] tanisnikana@lemmy.world 6 points 1 day ago (1 children)
[–] KaRunChiy@fedia.io 5 points 1 day ago (1 children)

dmenu suddenly stops opening

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[–] Matriks404@lemmy.world 5 points 1 day ago (1 children)

If Microsoft keeps breaking shit, companies will eventually look for alternatives.

[–] CeeBee_Eh@lemmy.world 4 points 1 day ago (1 children)

Just think about what's happening behind the scenes on Azure. I work with it daily and even it feels like a bloated slow mess.

[–] jjlinux@lemmy.zip 4 points 1 day ago

Bloated servers. Now I've heard it all. Thanks for bringing that out, all we hear is 'windows this and windows that' but it seems the cancer in Microsoft has metastasized to everything.

[–] sundray@lemmus.org 4 points 1 day ago

Perfect, you've got it, freeze the code base.

[–] ViscloReader@lemmy.world 4 points 1 day ago

Reads like a onion article

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