Ask Lemmy

Ask to see their bank account transactions.

If the data is out there then they should have no problem showing you.

I've had moderate success by using a handful of quotes over the years whenever this topic comes up with friends or family.

"Arguing that you don't care about the right to privacy because you have nothing to hide is no different than saying you don't care about free speech because you have nothing to say." - Edward Snowden

This quote can substitute out the "free speech" bit for "gun rights" if you are talking to a gun nut.

"I like to close the bathroom door when I'm taking a shower. It doesn't mean I'm doing anything immoral in there, I just have the right to privacy." - Anonymous

A fair followup question when they say "why bother, it's pointless anyway," that might provoke some thought on their part is: "Do you ever make any effort at all toward a goal that is ultimately a drop in the bucket? Have you ever recycled a single plastic bottle? Covered the PIN pad when entering your PIN number at an ATM? Walked to the store instead of driven? Written a letter to a congressman? If so, why? The overall effect of your action was probably negligibly small in the grand scheme of things, so why did you bother to put any effort in at all?"

The answer to that question is: just because you can't get to 100% privacy/eco-friendliness/whatever goal it is you have, doesn't mean you can't put in some degree of effort to protect your rights, the earth, or hold your government accountable.

They don't have to ditch Google entirely in one day. That's ludicrously hard and even privacy advocates like myself can't do it easily. You take incremental steps when you are ready. Ditch Chrome when you have the bandwidth and get Firefox. Ditch Google search in favor of DuckDuckGo when you think you can deal with the different experiences. etc, etc. Everyone's journey is different.

Give me your debit card pin.

Okay, let me see your browser history.

And while I'm at it, can I sit in that corner over there and watch you have sex with your wife?

Oh are we getting a little uncomfortable now? May I take a dump while you shower?

Wait, wait! What do you mean you suddenly care about privacy?

I ask them to unlock their phone for me to peruse. They shut up real quick

Tell them about surveillance pricing. It’s a good example because the information “already out there” is used to influence how much the stuff they buy costs. Another example would be unsecure home security/doorbell cameras that anyone on the internet can watch (if you know where to find them). Their camera feeds are “already out there”, so ask them if that’s ok.

I don't push it. It's their life and if privacy isn't a value to them nothing I say is going to change that. I might mention the amount of data collected but that's generally public knowledge anyway. Some people just don't care if a company that they use has the data.

"I value my privacy more than you, there is nothing more to it" is a more than adequate statement.

Take their bathroom door away since everyone has the same wiggly bits anyway.

When they have doorbell cloud cameras and they're this type, I ask if they'd put one in their shower. To match your topic, I'd ask them to live stream their next email/search/web session.

It is hard to shake people out of their ways of thinking.

I try and apply monetary value, as people care about money.

"Bro, Google sells your data and makes a ton of money off of what you're giving away. Why you giving it away? You want to give me your drivers license to sell?"

Also

"You have a right to privacy. And you give up that right in exchange for email? Can I buy your vote for a cookie?"

And this

"You gotta pay like $1000 just to bid on buying your data to serve you ads. Can you afford to even see you own data being sold?"

And

"They only see what you give away for free. Are you some pervert that likes to be watched? Are you naked at home with the curtains open? No? You sure?"

I'm currently fighting my city over flock cameras and I'm hearing this a lot. More people should care about privacy.

"Privacy is dead" only once you lose all legal rights to your own information. It may be "already out there", but at least you still have some legal recourse for when your information is being used by a 3rd party, without your consent. (or at least it should)

No one should have the right to just clone your identity, or make AI images in your likeness, or even sell your confidential information to advertisers, against your wishes. If there aren't laws already protecting your rights in that regard, where you live...there should be.

"Here's a link, kid. Go read a book."

Any reduction in the flow of data to big tech is a win. Its a journey, not a race. Good on you for starting.

As for trying to convince people, it usually a waste of time unless they are truly interested.

My usual tactic is to inform them about how google can and does close accounts for vague terms of service violations.

When I do react, I may ask them about the last time they had sex and how it was.

But most of the time I don't bother reacting. It's a waste of time.

I don't use Google or Microsoft. Also it takes no effort, you're lazy or you don't care.

You can already make them agree on the fact that if less companies have their datas, they have less risk to see them stolen and misused by hackers...

So that they may begin to feel the=r datas worthy to be protected.

Just as example of what datas may be used for, a french company got a few million euros stolen because an employee (and the boss) had let enough datas online so that hackers could pretend to be the boss and need a big amoult of money sent asap to a fiscal paradise account ; for corruption needed to maintaining the company and therefore the jobs...

Privacy protects us from scammers and other criminals, right? Why are you pro-crime? That’s weird.

Even as a tech savvy person I'll admit it's a bit of a problem to "take your toys and go home". Google purposefully made themselves an integral part of most of our lives so it really is about as involved as moving homes when it comes to migrating away from Google.

I would just say that moving one service is better than moving none of them. It's a slow process but it is doable. I'd say email is easiest to start with. I haven't converted any accounts yet (i.e. using my new email as the username) but for any new accounts I've been using my new email and occasionally closing accounts associated to Gmail. There's probably a ton of services you've signed up for but never use so closing is way easier than migrating.

I'm in the same boat as you OP, in that I try to prefer privacy when its convenient and available but ultimately not enough. Do you have any way of confirming that your privacy-based choices are actually legit? I just go off what people seem to agree on, but these might not even be people and instead just bad actors astroturfing some dangerous services and I'd have no way of knowing.

I'd like to go all in on shit like that, but basing an entire digital defence on vibes seems kinda shaky to me

You might be right. Privacy may be dead, but I hope you'll forgive me for not dancing on its grave.

You can achieve privacy by not doing things online. People used to understand that if you wanted something to remain private, you literally kept it to yourself, idk what happened. Hence my radical proposal: If you have things you wish to remain private, don't transmit those things into the largest public and most surveilled space that has ever existed, the Internet. We used to say to each other: "Don't put anything online or type anything into a browser that you wouldn't want to see on the frontpage of your hometown paper with your name on it." You can't walk into the public town square of the whole world, let your private details out, and then get miffed about muh privacy because you spoke into a place that was being listened to by corporations, it just doesn't work that way.

If you don't want people to see it maybe you shouldn't be doing it anyways.