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Wasn't the studios fault
They fought to change the name since the beginning because they knew it would be impossible to deliver a real sequel and while this name might get initial sales it would cause blowback killing the game almost immediately...
Which is exactly what happened.
Like, they'd have loved to make Masquerade 2, but they weren't given the time or funds to make it.
The worst part is that this failure will probably kill any chance of The Chinese Room getting to actually take a proper swing at this, from scratch, with time and a real budget. It really feels like if they were allowed to do that they would hit it out of the park. Bloodlines 2 is a much better game than the review scores suggest, mostly weighed down by the expectations people put in the Bloodlines name.
Chinese Room is clearly a bad fit for Bloodlines. They have zero experience with RPG games.
They make good walking-sim style gaming experiences with strong atmosphere and world-building, but they've never made any RPGs. Bloodlines was a living world full of dynamism (remember the Voerman twins missions?).
Their gameplay also tends to be subpar. The original Bloodlines had some flaws with gameplay (combat), but you still had a lot of different gameplay options and approaches.
Why shouldn't people have expectations for a strong roleplaying experience and player freedom for a Bloodlines game?
The gameplay in their original IPs is only subpar if you think that walking sims are inherently lesser games.
They absolutely are, in terms of gameplay. Ozzy Mandus and The Crank Hog Machine sacrificed most of the gameplay Frictional's Amnesia became known for. There are no light mechanics. Barely any physics puzzles. The pigmen are braindead, which removes the challenge and the tension. Even if it's a better story and atmosphere than The Dark Descent, it's a lesser game. Even Still Wakes The Deep only goes as far as "throw the object to make the thing look away" when you're not just responding to non-diegetic prompts.
You can make the argument that walking simulators have a place in the gaming landscape, and you'd be right, but by their nature, they are the exact opposite of what Bloodlines 1 was and what Bloodlines 2 should have been. Why Paradox decided it was a good idea to entrust with it a studio that has only made things that it never should have been is a fucking mystery to me.
Those two studios for the game because it was Hardsuit's idea to make the game in the first place and TCR barely kept Paradox from canceling the have after they kicked Hardsuit out of the project.
I think it basically went like this (simplified):
Hardsuit: "Hey Paradox, we wanna make Bloodlines 2. We have everything worked out, we have the best possible writers involved, and it's a real passion project; here's our pitch."
Paradox: "Wow, that pitch convinced us completely! You get all the green lights in the world!"
Hardsuit: "Now keep in mind we've never done a project on this scale before so we'll need plenty of time—"
Paradox: "We set you on an extremely aggressive schedule. Surely that'll motivate you into delivering perfection!"
Hardsuit: "That's literally the exact opposite of what we need."
Paradox: "But it's the exact non-opposite of what you get. Now chop chop, we already gave the release date to the press."
Hardsuit: "We're not getting the game done in that timeframe."
Paradox: "No problem; we'll delay a little bit. Surely nobody will mind."
Hardsuit: "It'll take more than 'a little bit'. We told you that—"
Paradox: "Okay, sure, whatever, the game's canceled now. Don't call us back."
TCR: "Hey, can we try to salvage this? We really wanna see this made. But we'd like to throw away all of the writing, characters, and gameplay. Everything except the setting, really."
Paradox: "Okay, sounds reasonable. But make it snappy."
TCR: "We'd also like to change the name because what we can deliver won't really be a proper sequel to—"
Paradox: "Bloodlines 2 it is. Good discussion. Glad we talked about this."
TCR: "That's literally the exact opposite of what we asked for."
Paradox: "Can't hear you; too busy launching the sequel to one of the most beloved cult classics in the action RPG genre."
Customers: "Well, this is a pretty bad sequel. Decent game but they really shouldn't have called it Bloodlines 2. We're disappointed."
Paradox: "The only logical course of action is to swear to never release a non-strategy game ever again because nobody appreciates our art."
With the second paragraph I agree, it's a bad fit for a sequel and this is consensus (probably, I didn't enjoy Bloodlines much), even TCR thinks so. But is this a scale? Is Bloodlines 1 a lesser game with subpar gameplay because it's systems weren't as complex as other CRPGs? "Game" is just the term we stuck with, it doesn't mean that the fidelity of the gameplay, the mechanics and dynamics is paramount. If I value narrative, and it is, has become, a narrative medium, I very well might think that A Machine For Pigs did a better job.
And would hip hop be lesser music than jazz?
It's not like that at all.
I enjoy walking sims (Soma is one of my favourite games of all time) in general and TCR's releases as well.
That doesn't mean one can't recognize that TCR tends to struggle even with relatively simple gameplay and that a game like Bloodlines requires strong gameplay design/implementation skills.
While I loved the atmosphere of Still Wakes the Deep, there were many situations where weak gameplay undermined the ambiance and immersion.
SOMA isn't a walking sim and I don't remember such situations in Still Wakes the Deep. The gameplay never stood in the way for me.
Let's agree to disagree in that case.
I hope I was able to at least share my own reasoning (even if you don't agree). And I think we can both agree that TCR does not have any experience in RPG games.
What a shambles
If you don't plan on making a successor that plays and contains the features the userbase would expect, don't name it like it's a sequel.
They ruined the name of a perfectly good franchise just to attract the fanbase, nobody wins and everyone is angry.
An earlier statement from one of the Paradox PR reps (before release):
"I actually played Bloodlines 1 quite recently, and it is a good game, but it is also an old game, and there are many things that would not fly today," Lilja said. "But I understand why people were super psyched by it in 2004, because it had a lot of cool [elements], and the feeling of being a vampire is really strong, regardless of other features. But I think people, they remember their feelings about it. And if they replayed it, I think they would see that it's a competently good game by 2004 standards, now that it's patched.
Seems like their approach to Bloodlines 2 isn't much of "high flyer" in the year 2025.
In defence of the PR rep, they were open about Bloodlines 2 not having much to do with the original and that it was more of vampire themed linear action game.
But in that case, why would you have internal targets of 2M+ initial sales if your plan is to have a radical departure from a well known cult classic RPG known for its roleplaying and strong writing?
Not replying to you but to that statement, they're absolutely wrong. I've never finished Bloodlines, life keeps getting in my way and I keep losing my save file (this is not unique to Bloodlines, there are several other games that are in the same bag). My point is every few years I start a new save on the OG bloodlines, and that game still holds out great, sure graphics are outdated, but other than that it's a great game even by today standards, and while I haven't played bloodlines 2, I'm fairly confident from everything I've seen it's a worse game by every metric that matters. These people think that graphics can overcome anything, but that's one of the least important parts of the game.
To be fair, the first part of the game is by far the best. The unofficial patch adds back in a heckton of content in the late game, but even then, it feels sparse. I have very fond memories of exploring Santa Monica though. The game felt huge and exciting, even playing it for the first time in 2019.
Damn, I should try install it again. I'm running Linux now, and if I recall, I had some problems getting it working. I should take another crack at it.
To be fair, the first part of the game is by far the best. The unofficial patch adds back in a heckton of content in the late game, but even then, it feels sparse.
Maybe, I don't know how far into the game I got since I never finished it. But I don't think it ever felt empty... Although the damn zombie mission is one I hate and has made me quit the game in more than one occasion.
I'm running Linux now
I have been running Linux only for over a decade, so I can confidently say the game runs, and in Steam is just hit play.
Were you running it with the unofficial patch? I don't remember what it was that was causing me problems, but it's possible that was it.
I don't remember, probably not last time, but I remember doing some patching in the past.
Paradox really needs a management shakeup.
I honestly don't know what Paradox was smoking with this one. They get the license, cool, they hand it off to a studio that...while is known for being a support dev or doing ports they DID manage to get the original Bloodlines writer on board and then it was delay, delay, delay, fire the creative team, more delay, switch studios, start completely over, call it a day, and then claim "yeah we're not going to make one of these style games again...we'd rather continue to nickle and dime our customers with strategy games."
They were smoking the drugs they bought from printing money with bad overpriced dlcs.
Publishers are a key ingredient in the recipe for trash games. Buying IP and telling some dev team that is doing it for the paycheck to slap something together is not making a game, it's parasitism.
I love VtM:B but I never had high hopes for this one. Direct sequels made by unrelated developers rarely work out.
Can’t wait for the next sequel that will be some kind of live-service multiplayer game with lots of cosmetic DLC.
Tried and failed already, but paradox can probally find more ways to fail.
Dang, they’re a joke.
Weird that they want to expand out of the strategy game genre by turning a love RPG into a basic action adventure game.
WoD is probably my favorite but I’m not touching a paradox game cos they have the reputation of shit
They're fucking up left and right.
When they announced the pre-order bonus, it seems clear that this might not be a good day one purchase. Will probably give it a look some time, but i should replay Troikas version first.
I already completely forgot this had come out
What? VTM2 came out?
When?
I legitimately did not know it was released.
Is that part of why its flopping?
Or is the gameplay bugged to fuck/story shit/etc?
Don't get too exited. Maybe in a year or two all the bad has been patched out and it might become an actually good game.
Yep. I'm waiting at least 2 years.
Yeah, that seems par for the course with current Paradox games the past few years..
Cities Skylines is 2 years old and still shit, too... Hell paradox is even going so far as to change the dev company working on it at the start of next year. Which is doing wonders for peoples hope for the future of the game /s
I'm really hoping that they go the CDPR route
Paradox owns the world of darkness ip entirely right now. I wonder if this call to refocus their efforts on their core competencies will mean selling it off.
They haven't done too well with it. They've released several games and I think some solo dev interactive fiction have been the only ones getting positive reviews: Earthblood, Swansong, Bloodhunt, and now Bloodlines 2 have all done pretty poorly. Even the tabletop RPG has seen better days, with 5th edition causing quite the controversy, mostly with Werewolf. Hell they closed White Wolf down for a while because the books caused controversy.
Paradox have done a terrible job with the IP.