this post was submitted on 10 Nov 2025

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234

In an encrypted group chat, National Guard members question Trump deployments (www.npr.org)

submitted 4 days ago by vegeta@lemmy.world to c/politics@lemmy.world

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[–] NuXCOM_90Percent@lemmy.zip 82 points 4 days ago* (last edited 4 days ago) (2 children)

"I have been on two humanitarian-esque missions with the guard, which were awesome, doing the things you see on the commercial, helping these communities," says J. "And then you want me to go pick up trash and dissuade homeless people in D.C. at gunpoint. Like, no dude. It's so disheartening every time I see another city — and I just wonder, 'who's going to stand up to this?'"

Hmm. Maybe the people who "serve" the country and are loaded with body armor and guns?

Therapy and talking through your anxieties and emotions is deeply important. But it is a lower priority than not fucking aiming guns at people in the first place.

[–] Get_Off_My_WLAN@fedia.io 48 points 4 days ago (1 children)

They don't just mean 'who' individually. They're in that group chat together because they don't know who or how many of them feel similarly enough that they can reasonably challenge their command.

Right now, the orders are deliberately vague enough, technically legal, and not blatantly unethical so that they can't refuse it. They can't disobey orders to guard federal property and go pick up trash from the streets because that's not something you'll likely win against in a UCMJ case, even if you know the real purpose of the orders is for Trump to make a show of force.

Also, a lot is up to their officers, who are obligated to disobey illegal and unethical orders. They have to set the climate for the soldiers. It's really hard for soldiers to speak up if they don't feel like their leaders have their back.

[+] NuXCOM_90Percent@lemmy.zip -18 points 4 days ago (2 children)

They can’t disobey orders to guard federal property and go pick up trash from the streets because that’s not something you’ll likely win against in a UCMJ case

Boo fucking hoo. How many people get out to protest or make a human shield to prevent ICE from abducting children? Or is it different? Because they just have to face secret police and normal judges and not motha fugging NCIS!!!!

Also, a lot is up to their officers, who are obligated to disobey illegal and unethical orders. They have to set the climate for the soldiers. It’s really hard for soldiers to speak up if they don’t feel like their leaders have their back.

Lemme fix that for you

I was just following orders and it was really the responsibility of the person above me to make sure my orders were legal and just

[–] Get_Off_My_WLAN@fedia.io 30 points 4 days ago (1 children)

Look man, you don't know the military well, so it's easy to criticize the actions of people whose position you never have to imagine yourself in, but it's like open-and-shut, you go to jail and fail to change anything if you're not careful.

If they resist, they have to be smart and do it as a collective.

And jesus christ, these guys aren't being told to attack civilians and kidnap children like ICE is doing, so forgive them a little if they're having a hard time between deciding if they want to risk being marked a felon by the federal government for life or instead pick up trash while carrying a gun so Trump can scare people a bit because he knows he can't legally use them for any more than that.

[+] NuXCOM_90Percent@lemmy.zip -16 points 4 days ago (1 children)

Look man, you don’t know the military well, so it’s easy to criticize the actions of people whose position you never have to imagine yourself in,

Got it. Let he who has flipped the switch cast the first stone at the brave men and women manning the gas chambers!

but it’s like open-and-shut, you go to jail and fail to change anything if you’re not careful.

Again. What do you think is going to happen to the people protesting and actually fighting against tyranny when ICE et al have had enough? Hell, the government is trying to send fucking Kat Abughazaleh to jail and she is a pretty white presenting politician with a large social media following.

But I get it. It is much easier for people who haven't served to have a backbone and actually fight against tyranny. Because... they don't know how good boot leather tastes?

[–] Get_Off_My_WLAN@fedia.io 16 points 4 days ago (1 children)

Are you saying the National Guard should fight ICE right now?

Or are you saying the National Guard soldiers should frag their officers?

Or just the soldiers here and there resist how they can and go to jail for refusing to pick up trash? This one leaves you with a National Guard completely not on your side instead of at least half on your side when you might need it most.

[+] NuXCOM_90Percent@lemmy.zip -12 points 4 days ago (2 children)

Are you saying the National Guard should fight ICE right now?

Hmm. A heavily armed paramilitary group acting in an illegal and unconstitutional manner to attack, torment, and abduct a civilian populace? Why would I expect the US military to intervene against that?

Or just the soldiers here and there resist how they can and go to jail for refusing to pick up trash? This one leaves you with a National Guard completely not on your side instead of at least half on your side when you might need it most.

No. What we have is half gleefully oppressing people and the other half pretending they are sad while... oppressing people.

MAYBE they'll grow a backbone down the line. All signs are that they'll continue to refuse and people like you will continue to defend them because there might be consequences for them not forcing civilian populations to live in fear.

[–] Get_Off_My_WLAN@fedia.io 13 points 4 days ago (1 children)

I'm not saying they shouldn't resist.

I'm saying right now it's neither wise nor warranted, as messed up as it may sound.

When Trump actually orders them to do something unconstitutional, they can refuse it. When he refuses to step down from the end of his term as president and order them to crush the states that don't ratify his third term, they can remove his ass.

But the things you want them to do right now, while I don't inherently disagree with, just sound impulsive and foolish.

[+] NuXCOM_90Percent@lemmy.zip -10 points 4 days ago (1 children)

When he refuses to step down from the end of his term as president and order them to crush the states that don’t ratify his third term, they can remove his ass.

Sort of like back in 2021 when he led a violent coup with the goal of murdering Congress and the VPOTUS because he didn't want to step down?

I am so glad that the military... let me check my notes... ah, yes. Waited to see who would win.

[–] FauxLiving@lemmy.world 9 points 4 days ago

I am so glad that the military… let me check my notes… ah, yes. Waited to see who would win.

Are you a high schooler that just learned that being cynical will make you sound smarter among peers who don’t have the knowledge to challenge you?

Explain what should have happened in that scenario in your view.

Which person in the military has the authority to unilaterally deploy US Military personnel for the purposes of domestic law enforcement?

What authority allows them to ignore the Posse Comitatus Act, which explicitly does not allow the use of the Military for domestic law enforcement?

Or, if you want to go after the NG service members, what should they do as individuals in your mind? Should they refuse to leave their barracks? Maybe go to their commanding officer and ask to be arrested? What specific thing?

You’re throwing a lot of stones and summoning hypotheticals without any apparent understanding of how the military functions.

[–] waddle_dee@lemmy.world 4 points 4 days ago (1 children)

When playing war games, sacrifices are necessary. Nobody plays chess with the intention to save every piece. The other commenter is correct. If you have people stand up now, before a civil war is fully underway, you have no easy access to the weaponry, skill, etc, that is needed to take on the government. And honestly, it's exactly what this adminstration wants.

The administration wants to stomp out any resistance. So, if soldiers start bucking, they'll be kicked to the curb. Then, when the real shit hits the fan, we have nobody on our side in the military. You are coming at this with the idyllic perspective of soldiers standing up now and kicking off an internal war within the military. But that's not how they work. The other commenter already mentioned how the UCMJ won't give soldiers the time of day for this shit.

It's easy to stand on top of your soapbox and broadcast your optimism and feel good that your protests are gonna actually make a change. They're not. We're totally fucked now. Do you not get it? We're in the middle game. We have to start seeing what pieces we have to prepare for a worst case scenario in which, we are fighting the US government. That requires sacrifice. It requires calculation. It requires a persistent bad taste in your mouth, because folks like you want to live in an Elysium.

You have no idea how bad it can get, living under an authoritarian rule. This is nothing, right now, in the grand scheme of things. War is hell, as they say. And we're about to see it. For my perspective; I've entered the "don't give a fuck" stage. I have a family to protect and that is my one and only priority. As it is with many others. That's the other point of view, you're missing out on. It's not as black and white as you make it out to be, and I wish it were. I wish we could value every human life and treat everyone with dignity and respect. Love and compassion. But we don't. The mouth of hell is opening, and I'm looking at getting as far away as possible. Because, as in line with my beliefs, I refuse to take a human life. And that is quickly becoming what is required. And I will not abide by that.

My reply here is just to educate you on the intricacies of war and the violitle situation the United States finds itself in. I'm not trying to be difficult, rude, or aggressive. If I come off that way, it was not my intention. I hope you have a great day, and I hope that the country doesn't fracture, but I fear it already is.

[+] NuXCOM_90Percent@lemmy.zip -8 points 4 days ago (1 children)

Something something, yeah son well I'm a secret navy seal and I'll tell you that the marines are actually a culture that deeply values honor something something laughed at me while eating his snickers.

Still, gotta love how in your rant (I REALLY hope that is a copypasta and not something you thought up yourself...) you managed to combine "you are too soft and don't understand what war is" with "the soldiers might get in twouble if they say anything".

Which.... about sums up America when you think about it.

[–] waddle_dee@lemmy.world 6 points 4 days ago (1 children)

You want the most uncomfortable truth of it all? What are you doing to stop this? What's your role, mate? Or, do you want somebody else to have blood on their hands? That's the crux of your argument. You want the NG to disregard these orders? Congratulations, you just helped fast track the military being filled with onlya sychophants. You want to NG to fight back against the government? That's delightful. Will you be taking up arms, or just watching? If you're gonna fight, why haven't you already? Your rhetoric is empty, complacent, and devoid of any real action. Which...about sums up Americans when you think about it.

I never said you were too soft. You are not tactful, or strategic in your thinking. Which means, you don't actually want to fight. You just want to feel good hyperbolizing in online debates.

[–] Ancalagon@lemmy.world 1 points 4 days ago (1 children)

M8 civilians don't take oaths to protect the constitution. So asking one to do your job for you is in poor taste.

I get where you're coming from. But collectively he is right. Individually you're right. But eventually those two are gunna collide. We all know it. Because we all feel it. It is what it is. Until the battle lines are truly drawn we can't naught but look or risk being sold a lie and acting on it.

Collective action is the smart play.

[–] waddle_dee@lemmy.world 2 points 3 days ago (1 children)

Firstly, I am not US Military. I come from a very diverse background of people, some of which are US Military, which is only where my knowledge of certain military aspects come from. My response was delegated in such a way to demonstrate that the commenter I was replying to, had no forethought for what they were asking. If you're in a situation where the US Military needs to turn on itself, civilians, by proxy, are involved in the war effort. That's how rebellions work. They are, almost, never fought solely within the faction of government in which it's taking place; not peacefully, that is. If that was not clear, then the fault is entirely my own.

Secondly, saying that, [collectively he's right, but individually I'm right,] is by nature a paradox. If you'd like to point out which aspects of their argument you feel are correct, as well for mine, then you are welcome to do so.

Lastly, the whole entirety of my point is that, it behooves one strategic effort to keep as many allies within the current system, for as long as possible, to maintain access to weapons, skills, and intel, that would be needed for such a desperate war.

P.S. I've said this before, but the sad fact is, until middle class, white, white collar Americans start losing their rights en masse, there will be no civil war. We're heading that way, but not there. The administration and SCOTUS, are being quite clever to not bother that base in such a way. So Americans, by and large, will continue this trajectory of getting up, going to work, and putting food on the table. Most Americans don't care enough about the poor, the immigrants, the unhoused, the minorities, to take drastic enough action to initiate change on a large scale. I do think you are very apt in your words, "Until battle are truly drawn...". We truly do not have enough information to act on. I appreciate your comment wholly and I enjoy being able to discuss things thoughtfully and respectfully. If you feel I have not done so, let me know as well.

[–] Ancalagon@lemmy.world 1 points 2 days ago

That's the crux there are different levels of realities happening here. Schumer just betrayed us. If you violently attack rn then it will be seen as a terrorist attack serving absolutely no purpose. This you will destroy your individualism to protect the collective. But at no gain, infact it could be a negative.

But at the same time Schumer just betrayed us and something must be done. But like you mentioned the power is the white moderate who is asleep.

[–] zoloftt@lemmy.world 11 points 3 days ago (1 children)

I don't know if you're still checking this, but you WANT the people who question these things to stay in. The other guy already tried his best to explain it to you so I won't dog pile.

[–] NuXCOM_90Percent@lemmy.zip -2 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago) (2 children)

It doesn't matter if they are "questioning" things if they are still holding guns and oppressing the populace.

I am sure plenty of the guards running the gas chambers questioned what they are doing. None of that mattered a bit to the people being murdered.

Because there is a time for questioning and a time for action. And if you really need to question "should I be the gun pointed at the people I claim to serve?"... you kind of already have your answer. Especially since the constant defense is "they would get in twouble if they don't follow orders!"

[–] zoloftt@lemmy.world 8 points 3 days ago

They aren't. Not sure what news you're getting. National guard is putzing around. ICEstappo and the other LEO feds are. You have shown you'd rather be a keyboard revolutionary than actually understand. I hope you're not from the USA, because your lack of interest in understanding the actual problem is no better than a MAGAt.

[–] stoy@lemmy.zip -3 points 4 days ago (3 children)

So you want a military coup in the US?

[–] snooggums@piefed.world 25 points 4 days ago (2 children)

I want the military to refuse to follow illegal orders. That counts as standing up, and they will need those weapons to defy the ones who go along with the illegal orders.

[–] credo@lemmy.world 9 points 4 days ago

Refusing low threat legally dubious orders (that are being played out in the courts) is exactly how people get replaced with sycophants.

This is the trial and pruning phase; you want the opposition to show their cards now?

Area beatification isn’t worth shredding your weapons card.

[–] null@piefed.nullspace.lol 3 points 4 days ago (1 children)

Which illegal orders?

[–] snooggums@piefed.world 2 points 4 days ago

https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/trump-national-guard-troops-portland-illegal-judge-rules-9.6972044

[–] Sciaphobia@sh.itjust.works 14 points 4 days ago (1 children)

If that's what it takes because no other system is doing it's fucking job, I kinda do. Something needs to happen. This treading water shit isn't working.

[–] stoy@lemmy.zip 11 points 4 days ago

To be fair, an unelected general seizing power from this regime does seem to be the current lesser of two evils.

[–] NuXCOM_90Percent@lemmy.zip 6 points 4 days ago (1 children)

By which I take it you want to be gunned down in the street by the potus's lackies who are "just following orders"?

No. A military coup would not be a good thing. But when we already have guns being turned on our own people by our own government? We are pretty fucking far past things that are "good" and even just not having the national guard (soon to be mainline military) acting as the right arm of a rapist nazi.

[–] stoy@lemmy.zip -4 points 4 days ago (1 children)

I have zero intentions to travel to the US until MAGA is ripped out from normal politics.

I am not even on the same continent.

I just wanted to make it clear, that was what you suggested.

[–] NuXCOM_90Percent@lemmy.zip 2 points 4 days ago

Then maybe you should consider educating yourself on a topic before commenting on it?

[–] Chainweasel@lemmy.world 30 points 4 days ago (3 children)

I guarantee he's going to try a military coup before 2028, probably even next year if the midterms don't go his way, and my only hope is that the Army and National Guard remember their oath is to the Constitution and not to Trump.

[–] Tower@lemmy.zip 10 points 4 days ago

1000%. That's why he keeps ramping up the pressure on us plebs - he's trying to get a violent reaction that'll justify massive military deployments and martial law.

[–] paraphrand@lemmy.world -2 points 4 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago)

Don’t be shy, throw it on the pile of world changing predictions for 2027:

China invades Taiwan
Alien disclosure happens
Trump ends democracy
The singularity occurs
Solid state batteries enter the market
The year of Linux on the desktop

These are all real predictions. Except for maybe the Linux one. I’m not shit posting. And the list could go on, I’m just not remembering more of them right now.

Edit: y'all are no fun. And to be clear, I was NOT refuting the person I replied to. I am merely pointing out that we have a bumpy road ahead.

[–] tornavish@lemmy.cafe -2 points 4 days ago

I’ll take that bet.

[–] tornavish@lemmy.cafe 2 points 4 days ago (1 children)

I do not believe that this represents the majority and I doubt the military as a whole will risk their benefits to help a neighbor.

[–] PMmeTrebuchets@lemmy.zip 1 points 4 days ago (1 children)

Idk why this was downvoted I've yet to meet a active service member who voted for Biden (I know my sample size isn't huge but like, lots of vets love Trump and love that he's deporting people)

[–] tornavish@lemmy.cafe 1 points 4 days ago

I like to disable the visibility of voting. If anyone wants to say something they can say it to my digital face