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I can think of another one.
What if religion was separated from government, and all people were treated equally under secular law, as is the case in every advanced country where even non-cis-males are allowed to read freely and have a complex pluralistic civilization ?
IOW what if all the Sky Daddy people fucked off with their cosplay and let the adults manage things?
Ok great. So now Israel is just committing a secular genocide without the veneer of religion. I don't see that that's better.
What an uninformed, specious thing to say. I almost suspect trolling
Are you seriously suggesting Bibi's Likud, or its partners Shas and Mafdal are ... secular ?!?
It's a bit more complicated than that. People like him have traditionally played off of religion heavily while not being firm believers themselves. I think it stands to reason that the religion is a means to an end, which in Israel's case amplifies their main defense, which is, "If you don't like our ethnostate the you don't like Jews." Obviously ridiculous to most leftists, but liberals are more amenable to identity politics.
Yes that's an integral part of "religion"
I think a key distinction is that the religious rhetoric is often precisely that — rhetoric. Specifically, it's rhetoric aimed at an international audience, because conflating Judaism with the Israeli state is essential to how Israel frames itself and its genocide. It allows them to denounce all criticism of zionism as antisemitism, even if those critiques are coming from Jewish antizionists. Meanwhile, Israel's actions have been helping drive an increase in actual antisemitism, which is also useful for Israel, because it helps them to justify the existence of Israel as necessary for Jewish safety.
That might seem like splitting hairs, but it's important if we want to understand what's happening. Many of the most vehement pro-genocide voices in Israel are secular Jews, as is a decent proportion of Jews in Israel. Judaism is more than just a religion, but an ethnoreligious group, and that distinction is important because Israel cares more about the "ethno-" part of that than the religious part (because like I say, there are many people who identify as secular Jews).
It's somewhat analogous to how Trump performs a particular kind of conservative Christian rhetoric that's more about white nationalism than any Christian ideals. The religious component is important to acknowledge, because many prominent MAGAs aren't doing it performatively in the way that Trump and some others do, but rather their Christian faith is tightly intertwined with their white nationalism. However, to see this purely as a religious issue would lose crucial nuance of the issue.
reminder: a state is not part of the Jewish faith, it’s part of the zionist agenda; the reason being profit. Zionism is not judaism. It is capitalism dressed with religious propaganda.
People do respond to rhetoric, especially rhetoric that is reinforced by their culture
It is crucially important that the memes people internalize are not based on belief-without-evidence, nor or specially-chosen-people.
Those are toxic memes for a successful modern diverse inclusionary civilization
Is canada not secular? Why did Carney said he want a zionist palestine, always talk about israel right to defend itself, lying about stopping selling weapons to it and pretending to want a two state solution?
Carney, like most Canadians wants peace. Not the eradication of Palestinians, nor the eradication of Israelis. Canada can support a two party solution, and still support those 'parties' - that's actually very consistent.
You are either too naive or just pretending like Carney . He is lying about stopping selling weapons, he did nothing against the idf soldiers talking in a Canadian university and the selling of occupied land in Synagogues
I don't know about those thing. But I can see how he might lie about selling weapons. Canada always walks that tightrope - trying to advocate for peace, but having a significant military equipment industry. Right now Canada is in a very tough position economically with the U.S. shitting on it. It needs to do everything it can to improve international trade. But I don't like it if he lied.
We don't use that excuse when we talk about the countries buying oil from Russia when they are invading Ukraine with certain support from the USA
Well, they do seem to be excused for that, it seems. Europe is buying Russian gas. Because they need to so their economy keeps going.
No, but Ben Gurion absolutely was.
WhenxSecular countries are supporting the terrorist state of Israel you know that it is not about religion
US support if Israel is arguably very much driven by religion as much as geopolitics
It's typical imperialism and western neocolonial mentality
It's definitely the excuse they use to justify it.
It's just surprising how many people fall for it, including those critical of it.
profit and hegemony. not religion.
know what a state without religion looks like? palestine.
Exactly - this is being missed because the propaganda has framed this as a 'Jews vs. Muslims' religious conflict.
It's not. It's an ethnostate built for Zionists, not Jews - as shown by the way the state is treating orthodox Rabbis who are protesting against the occupation.
Again little to do with religion its colonialism dummy.
Uh... The Nakba was committed by secular atheists. Stop trying to pin this on religion.
Just put the whole region under a quarantine and check back in 100 years whether they have become civilized?
No. Not disengagement; quite the opposite. De-radicalization and modernization.
The way Germany stopped worshiping Hitler and the mythical Great Germanic Past. The way Japan stopped worshiping Hirohito and the mythical Great Japanese Past.
Both were quasi religious states, depending on a population steeped in a culture of credulity coupled with unchallengeable authority.
Related but not identical: North Korea, Iran, Putin's Russia, MAGA
Germany and Japan were subject to complete and total American led nation building. Douglas MacArthur basically wrote the Japanese constitution and modeled it on America.
Who do you plan to appoint as leader of this new project of yours?
Yeah that's the real serious problem here
There is no Force Majure. America that was, is no more.
Learn to swim?